# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 181
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3608 "2023-07-23T16:49:02Z")
Good luck with that. They will either pretend not to hear you as they walk away, or you will get a non-response of “Just wait right here”. That advice you just gave? The cops know all about it and how to circumvent it. Insist too hard, and you have become “combative”. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3609 "2023-07-23T16:52:38Z")
Good point, and that’s why you should always film your encounters with the police. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3610 "2023-07-25T14:35:26Z")
This is paywalled. Perhaps someone could post a gift link. > **[Video shows 5 officers tackling mentally ill man. Experts question why.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/07/25/video-officers-tackle-mentally-ill-man/)** > > The Arlington police officers took down Delgardo Franklin II after he refused to surrender. It defied their training, a Post investigation found. > Delgardo Franklin II had been hearing voices in his head but refusing mental health treatment for weeks. So his father took matters into his own hands, calling Arlington police while his son sat at a bus stop on a summer day in 2019… As one officer pointed a Taser device at the younger Franklin, another ordered him to kneel so he could be handcuffed, video of the encounter obtained by The Washington Post shows. When Franklin refused, five officers circled him and moved in on cue, wrestling him to the ground… Police then jailed Franklin and charged him with assaulting three officers. All of it while his father stood by, watching in disbelief as police overpowered an unarmed man he told them was in mental distress… Franklin’s mental health deteriorated after the encounter, his father said. He was prosecuted for a year and a half, even after a Virginia judge found him incompetent to stand trial. Another judge found that his competence had been restored months later, but the charges were ultimately dropped in May 2021, after the case was docketed for hearings 17 times. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3611 "2023-07-25T19:55:55Z")
[I hope this gift link works.](https://wapo.st/44D52aM) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3612 "2023-07-25T23:41:55Z")
The bottom line is that you NEVER call the police to deal with somebody having a mental health crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3613 "2023-07-29T03:51:30Z")
I really hope this was just an unfortunate accident. I’m picturing the cop spotting the address as the one with the car parked out front and, not knowing the woman was laying in the road just beyond the parked car, runs over her as they’re turning into the driveway…or something like that. My fear is that it’s going to be something stupid like they were texting or otherwise not paying enough attention to notice a woman laying in the middle of the road in broad daylight when the dispatcher told them that they’d be looking for a woman walking around in the street. (\<- made up example, I don’t know any more than what the article says) > **[Woman dead after Greenfield police officer accidentally ran her over](https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/woman-dead-after-greenfield-police-office-accidentally-ran-her-over)** > > A woman is dead after a Greenfield police officer accidentally ran her over Thursday evening. Police say she was lying in the street when it happened. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3614 "2023-07-30T11:52:50Z")
> [@QMatic](#): > > Cops leave suspect handcuffed in patrol car stopped on train tracks, ignore train whistle until… > **[US officer who put handcuffed woman in car hit by freight train found guilty](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/29/colorado-police-officer-car-freight-train)** > > Jordan Steinke convicted on misdemeanour charges but found not guilty of more serious charges over 2022 crash in Colorado ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3615 "2023-07-30T12:30:15Z")
Found guilty of a misdemeanor?? Was it littering the train track with his car and that woman? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3616 "2023-07-30T12:41:09Z")
Reckless endangerment and assault. The charge she was acquitted of was intent to commit manslaughter. It doesn’t sound like the case supported that last charge. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3617 "2023-07-30T13:03:39Z")
I would have thought that leaving someone locked up on train tracks would be worse than a misdemeanor. Who does that? The cop also endangered the train. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3618 "2023-07-30T13:08:03Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I would have thought that leaving someone locked up on train tracks would be worse than a misdemeanor. Then it’s up to the prosecutor to find a felony charge that can be supported by the facts of the case. It appears that the officer was stupid and reckless, but not malicious. There is another officer still to be tried so there may be more supported felony charges in that case. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3619 "2023-07-30T13:10:09Z")
Maybe that’s the officer who left the car on the tracks. Another idiot. Hopefully, both are fired. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3620 "2023-07-30T17:09:01Z")
Exactly. Anyone who thinks that calling someone whose only tools are weapons to deal with someone in a mental health crises is an idiot. “I was afraid he’d hurt himself so I called for a guy with a gun to come help” said no intelligent person ever. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3621 "2023-07-30T17:24:19Z")
Which is fucked. Because manslaughter itself is admitting the death was accidental. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3622 "2023-07-30T17:39:46Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > The cop also endangered the train. I heard of an Amtrak run that was delayed for over an hour because it hit a shopping cart and they had to look for a person that might have been with it. Trains hitting things do not just go along on their way. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3623 "2023-07-30T20:13:30Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Because manslaughter itself is admitting the death was accidental. The alternative is that it was on purpose, which is entirely possible. But the prosecution would have to demonstrate that the officer intended have the car struck by a train in order to kill or injure the victim. I suspect that would be rather hard to prove in this instance unless there’s evidence that I’m not aware of. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3624 "2023-07-31T04:36:54Z")
And that would be murder under any regular reading of the law. Manslaughter, under Colorado law, is recklessly causing the death of another person. Recklessly is acting in a manner that involves substantial and unjustifiable risk of death, knowing that action carries substantial risk, and doing it anyway. Locking someone in a police cruiser parked on the train tracks fits every part of that definition. The officer committed manslaughter, and the jury let them off the hook. That’s why it’s fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3625 "2023-07-31T04:50:20Z")
But then they would be inconvenienced by having to move 2 towns over to continue their law work! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3626 "2023-07-31T05:37:01Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Exactly. Anyone who thinks that calling someone whose only tools are weapons to deal with someone in a mental health crises is an idiot. “I was afraid he’d hurt himself so I called for a guy with a gun to come help” said no intelligent person ever. We’ve been subject to decades of “Call 911 in an emergency.” So of course we tend to call 911 in any emergency whether it’s a crime in progress, a fire, heart attack, or someone having some sort of mental health crisis. When my father had a heart attack, I called 911 and a police officer arrived shortly after the paramedics did. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3627 "2023-07-31T08:32:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > We’ve been subject to decades of “Call 911 in an emergency.” So of course we tend to call 911 in any emergency whether it’s a crime in progress, a fire, heart attack, or someone having some sort of mental health crisis. The question I always ask myself before calling 911 is “Will introducing a heavily armed high school dropout with a pathological need to assert his authority into this situation be a good thing, or a bad thing?” Because when you call 911,that’s what you’re going to get. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=180) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=182)