# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 186
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3708 "2023-09-20T16:15:12Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > According to the article, Disorderly Conduct. We need to give the cops a formal legal citation for Disrespectin Ma Thority so they don’t have to resort to alternative charges. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3709 "2023-09-20T16:19:10Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > I missed that. Where does that happen? At 1:30 in the video I posted. (It’s the reporter relaying the officer’s words). > [@tofor](#): > > According to the article, Disorderly Conduct. No further details are provided and the video does not help clarify. Yup, nice contempt of cop charge. Sounds good. > [@tofor](#): > > At about 5:45, about a minute and a half after the police began attempting to arrest him, we first see the tazer. The band hasn’t been playing for almost 2 minutes at this point, so the tazer is not deployed in an attempt to stop the music. Apparently the first attempt to taze him failed, at which point they order him to put his hands behind his back. He does not, and at about 6:00 he is tazed and falls to the ground. As was very clearly explained to you in the other thread, tazers are meant to be used when there is a threat of violence, not some cop’s ego out of control. This was 100% the Birmingham’s police’s failure to try one ounce of de-escalation. They did nothing but issue bullshit commands, and when they weren’t complied with on the spot, they escalated the situation. Let’s check back in a month from now when the charges are dropped and Ben Crump is suing the department. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3710 "2023-09-20T16:35:35Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > As was very clearly explained to you in the other thread, tazers are meant to be used when there is a threat of violence, not some cop’s ego out of control. And I at no time defended the use of the tazer. I’m merely trying to counter the knee-jerk false summaries and descriptions. The tazer was not used to make him stop conducting as has been misleadingly implied several times, and it was not used on him as he “just stood there” either, as has been said several times. It was used to gain compliance after 90 seconds of him actively resisting arrest. You get to argue if that’s reasonable/justifiable/horrific or whatever, but you don’t get to make up different facts. > [@mjmartin](#): > > Let’s check back in a month from now when the charges are dropped and Ben Crump is suing the department. I would not be surprised if the charges were dropped, but he’s unlikely to succeed in any lawsuit, Qualified Immunity being what it is. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3711 "2023-09-20T16:44:15Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > The tazer was not used to make him stop conducting as has been misleadingly implied several times, and it was not used on him as he “just stood there” either, as has been said several times. It was used to gain compliance after 90 seconds of him actively resisting arrest. No, it wasn’t used to make him stop conducting. I agree with you. He had already done that. Any reasonable officer would have said, ok, clear out and go home. He would have filed a complaint with the department, which would have been ignored and the whole thing would have been forgotten about. Instead, the tazer was used to dominate and hurt him for his failure to immediately comply with their authority. > [@tofor](#): > > I would not be surprised if the charges were dropped, but he’s unlikely to succeed in any lawsuit, Qualified Immunity being what it is. Not sure I agree, except that this just shows that the officers acted like children and will very likely be allowed to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3712 "2023-09-20T16:51:22Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > > [@tofor](#): > > > > We do not know why the police thought it was so important that the band stop playing, so saying it’s “because the police wanted to go home” is making up parts of the story. > > They specifically said, “we’re going to charge you for the overtime.” 🫤 That’s not even an infraction! ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3713 "2023-09-20T17:34:06Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > > [@tofor](#): > > > > I missed that. Where does that happen? > > At 1:30 in the video I posted. (It’s the reporter relaying the officer’s words). The reporter says, “I’m going to have them send you all a bill tomorrow” where ‘them’ is apparently the school. I’m not sure where they got that from since I don’t see it in the released bodycam footage. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3714 "2023-09-20T17:47:24Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > The reporter says, “I’m going to have them send you all a bill tomorrow” where ‘them’ is apparently the school. You left out, “for the overtime.” Taken as a whole, I take that to mean: you have to stop playing right now, because if you don’t we’re going to charge for overtime, and I’m going to have the school bill you for it. > [@tofor](#): > > I’m not sure where they got that from since I don’t see it in the released bodycam footage. I don’t know. Obviously if the news station made it up, it changes the tone of what caused this whole altercation. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3715 "2023-09-20T17:53:18Z")
I doubt the news folks made it up, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if they got it from an eyewitness and the third-hand report got garbled. It’s also possible there’s another video I haven’t seen, or it’s in the video and I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3716 "2023-09-20T18:17:22Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > I doubt the news folks made it up, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if they got it from an eyewitness and the third-hand report got garbled. I would be very, very happy to hear that the quote was wrong, and that the officers had a compelling reason to escalate the situation so completely. I mean, if there was a tornado headed for the stadium, then this would all make sense. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3717 "2023-09-21T01:45:04Z")
Surely everyone agrees it is important to get tough with child pornographers? > **[2 police officers being investigated after telling a father his 11-year-old...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/20/us/columbus-ohio-police-officers-under-investigation/index.html)** > > The police chief in Columbus, Ohio, is condemning an incident in which two officers told a father his 11-year-old daughter could face child porn charges for sending images to a man online. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3718 "2023-09-21T02:15:41Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > When they attempted to arrest him, he resisted. At that point they tazed him. Where by “resisted”, you mean “he didn’t get on the ground and kneel on his own neck”. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3719 "2023-09-21T12:22:14Z")
No, by “resisted” I mean he held his arms in front of his body, moved his hands away from the handcuffs, and pulled away from the police restraining him, and yelled “No man, get off of me”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3720 "2023-09-21T12:27:38Z")
…that doesn’t demand a tasing. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3721 "2023-09-21T12:39:00Z")
Perhaps not. But that is a different argument from “he was tazed for not stopping the band performance”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3722 "2023-09-21T12:40:58Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Perhaps not. …“perhaps not” kinda implies that “perhaps so” is actually an option. Do you think he deserved the tasing? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3723 "2023-09-21T12:41:03Z")
I understand “resisting arrest” is a crime, even if the arrest is unlawful. OTOH, I can _completely_ understand why a black person would resist, because they are in genuine fear for their life. There are many racist cops out there who fantasize about murdering someone of color. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3724 "2023-09-21T12:47:44Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …“perhaps not” kinda implies that “perhaps so” is actually an option. > > Do you think he deserved the tasing? Yeah, those would be the two options. I don’t take a side in that argument, but nobody else is either because everybody keeps arguing about whether he would have been tazed for “continuing a band performance” (it was over at the time) or for “just standing there” (he was actively resisting arrest). My position is that the argument should be about the facts, not a fantasy alternate reality where the police walked up and tazed a guy who was just directing a band. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3725 "2023-09-21T12:48:30Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > No, by “resisted” I mean he held his arms in front of his body, moved his hands away from the handcuffs, and pulled away from the police restraining him, and yelled “No man, get off of me”. Assuming this is true (and it does happen all the time) if the cops are escallating the situation they can pretty much force it to happen. If the underlying reason for restraining him were bogus (and they appear to be bogus) then the cops should be held accountable for criminal activity. They have power and authority, but misuse of that power should be monitoried and controlled. **Quis custodiet ipsos custodes** ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3726 "2023-09-21T12:51:36Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Yeah, those would be the two options. I don’t take a side in that argument, but nobody else is either because everybody keeps arguing about whether he would have been tazed for “continuing a band performance” (it was over at the time) or for “just standing there” (he was actively resisting arrest). > > My position is that the argument should be about the facts, not a fantasy alternate reality where the police walked up and tazed a guy who was just directing a band. …don’t be disingenuous. It isn’t about “the facts.” There was nothing in that video that deserved a tasing and _you know it_. And that’s all that matters here. Not some pointless nitpicking over what you consider the “correct narrative” to be. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3727 "2023-09-21T12:53:16Z")
In some people’s minds he deserved a tazing long before any of this happened. As one of the members here who is part of the constabulary believes, a prophylactic use of beatings keeps people in line. Teaches them who’s boss y’know. Makes future interactions much safer for the boys in blue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=185) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=187)