# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/382 "2020-09-13T20:32:13Z")
Very nice piece. I especially like this line. > [@](#): > > “People thank cops for their service, but they should be thanking McDonald’s workers,” Skinner told me. “They’re way more likely to have a gun in their face than I am.” And of course, as has been said here: > [@](#): > > Officers are taught that “once you give a lawful order it has to be followed—and that means immediately.” But the recipient of a “lawful order” may not understand why it’s being issued, or that his or her failure to comply may lead to the use of force. There’s no training on how to de-escalate tense scenarios in which no crime has been committed, even though the majority of police calls fall into that category. It is up to the officer’s discretion to shape these interactions, and the most straightforward option is to order belligerent people to the ground and, if they resist, tackle them and put them in cuffs. > > “This is how situations go so, so badly—yet justifiably, legally,” Skinner said. Police officers often encounter people during the worst moments of their lives ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/383 "2020-09-14T19:26:25Z")
Interesting statistic I just learned today: police themselves kill significantly more police officers than the people on the other end of police encounters do. That is, more police died from suicide than were killed on the job in 2019 - 228 vs 132, and this pattern has held true since at least 2016. All of the talk about how police need to take extreme measures to protect themselves from dangerous civilians seems to ignore that police are the biggest cop killers around. > **[Record number of US police officers died by suicide in 2019, advocacy group says](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/record-number-us-police-officers-died-suicide-2019/story?id=68031484)** > **[For Third Straight Year, Police Suicides Outnumber Line-Of-Duty Deaths](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/for-third-straight-year-police-suicides-outnumber-line-of-duty-deaths_n_5c2d110de4b05c88b70542fa)** > > Law enforcement agencies across the country lost at least 159 officers to suicide in 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/384 "2020-09-14T19:38:05Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Well, we don’t know a lot about this incident yet, but it doesn’t look good to me. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > According to further comments on the thread… so whatever grain of salt on that… > > The Lyft had a light out, which is why they were stopped. The Lyft Driver did not have his ID. > > The passenger also did not have ID. Which is perfectly legal, if you are not the one driving. > > How that resulted in the passenger being brutalized is unclear. The police were claiming that he was resisting arrest, but are not saying what he was being arrested for. I guess for asking why he needed to have an ID as a passenger. And, since resisting arrest is anything that the cop says it is, including just struggling to breathe, I’m not sure that I would buy their story. > > At one point, an officer claims that the passenger is biting his hand, while both his hands are visible, and unmarked. > > Every officer in this video should be charged with felonious assault, including the ones who just stood by and let it happen. A deputy has reportedly been fired. > **[Georgia police officer who attacked Black passenger fired](https://news.yahoo.com/police-officer-attacked-black-lyft-191634055.html)** > > The police officer who was seen on video pressing his weight against a Black passenger near Atlanta has been terminated. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/385 "2020-09-14T20:13:07Z")
Individual 1 flew into Sacramento today and out almost exactly two hours later. There were pro-and anti demonstrators. There is video of a California Highway Patrol car plowing through a crowd of demonstrators with their horn honking, not making any attempt to slow down, and the car hit two protesters, one flew over the top of the car and one got dragged by the car for a distance. The cop didn’t even stop to see if they were okay, just kept on going. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/386 "2020-09-14T20:19:53Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Interesting statistic I just learned today: police themselves kill significantly more police officers than the people on the other end of police encounters do. That is, more police died from suicide than were killed on the job in 2019 - 228 vs 132, and this pattern has held true since at least 2016. All of the talk about how police need to take extreme measures to protect themselves from dangerous civilians seems to ignore that police are the biggest cop killers around. Pretty shitty thing to be glib about. But you do you, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/387 "2020-09-14T20:36:06Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Pretty shitty thing to be glib about. But you do you, I guess. Pretty shitty to use completely false statistics to justify killing innocent people. The fact that police are the biggest cop killers around is not ‘glib’, it’s simple statistical fact that seems to get overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/388 "2020-09-14T20:38:55Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Pretty shitty to use completely false statistics to justify killing innocent people. The fact that police are the biggest cop killers around is not ‘glib’, it’s simple statistical fact that seems to get overlooked. You must take great comfort in knowing that dead cops can’t kill anyone. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/389 "2020-09-14T20:47:02Z")
I’m not seeing that in the news. Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/390 "2020-09-14T20:55:13Z")
No, I just saw it on the local news. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/391 "2020-09-14T20:55:26Z")
[Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department’s claimed that a journalist who was arrested for allegedly obstructing justice during a protest failed to identify herself as press and ignored verbal commands,](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/kpcc-laist-reporters-account-video-of-violent-arrest-while-covering-protest-seemingly-contradicts-la-county-sheriffs-departments-claims/ar-BB191wHf?li=BBnb7Kz) And, it turns out that were lying liars who were lying. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/392 "2020-09-14T21:29:09Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > And, it turns out that were lying liars who were lying. Where’s that confounded “shocked” emoji?? Found it! 😲 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/393 "2020-09-14T21:46:58Z")
Hey, the press are just like the police, covering each other’s asses while they harass the police by snitching on them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/394 "2020-09-14T21:59:55Z")
Louisiana: > **[AP: Feds probing in-custody death of Black man in Louisiana](https://apnews.com/article/8149ba0410056b2f96b155b0d2e127d7)** > > Federal authorities are investigating the death of a Black man during what Louisiana State Police described as a struggle to take him into custody following a rural police chase last year, officials told The Associated Press. > [@](#): > > The death of 49-year-old Ronald Greene remains shrouded in secrecy because State Police have declined to release body-camera footage related to the May 2019 chase north of Monroe, Louisiana. Troopers say it began when Greene failed to stop for an unspecified traffic violation. > > Greene’s death drew new attention after his family filed a wrongful death lawsuit this year alleging state troopers “brutalized” Greene and “left him beaten, bloodied and in cardiac arrest” before covering up his actual cause of death. > > Greene’s family said authorities initially claimed Greene died after crashing into a tree but omitted what State Police now acknowledge was the “struggle” preceding his death. The lawsuit, drawing on witness accounts, alleges officers pinned Greene to the ground and used a stun gun on him even after he apologized for leading them on a chase. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/395 "2020-09-14T22:01:43Z")
It’s time we started calling these cases by their accurate name: Police executions. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/396 "2020-09-14T22:15:57Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Individual 1 flew into Sacramento today and out almost exactly two hours later. There were pro-and anti demonstrators. There is video of a California Highway Patrol car plowing through a crowd of demonstrators with their horn honking, not making any attempt to slow down, and the car hit two protesters, one flew over the top of the car and one got dragged by the car for a distance. The cop didn’t even stop to see if they were okay, just kept on going. > [@mikecurtis](#): > > I’m not seeing that in the news. Do you have a cite? Here are some. [https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/09/14/trump-sacramento-visit-protest-chaos/](https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/09/14/trump-sacramento-visit-protest-chaos/) > **[Protesters outside Trump event struck by car, another injured in incident...](https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article245729375.html)** > > A TV news camera recorded a driver veering into a crowd of Trump protesters. [https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/car-appears-to-hit-protesters-outside-trump-appearance/103-6dc24955-153d-4ed8-941c-17c608a85d3b](https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/car-appears-to-hit-protesters-outside-trump-appearance/103-6dc24955-153d-4ed8-941c-17c608a85d3b) ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/397 "2020-09-14T22:20:09Z")
Thanks for the links. Still nothing in my feed… strange. It’s obviously a breaking story as the reports seem to be telling different stories ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/398 "2020-09-15T13:51:11Z")
This Onion story captures the zeitgeist quite well: > **[Police Officer Shuts Off Body Camera Out Of Respect For Dying Victim](https://www.theonion.com/police-officer-shuts-off-body-camera-out-of-respect-for-1845050209)** > > NEW YORK—Deciding that it wouldn’t be right to try to capture video of another human being in his final moments, NYPD police officer Tom Sloane reportedly shut off his body camera early Monday morning out of respect for his dying victim. “This man is... ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/399 "2020-09-15T14:06:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > However, when cops brutalize the people that they are supposed to be protecting, you have reactions like this, where they are ambushed, and have no chance to even be aware of the danger. This is a little too close to “she shouldn’t have been dressed so sexy if she didn’t want to get raped.” Walking up to two human beings and shooting them in cold blood is absolutely fucking evil and insane. It is not in any way an understandable reaction to anything. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/400 "2020-09-15T14:15:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is a little too close to “she shouldn’t have been dressed so sexy if she didn’t want to get raped.” > > Walking up to two human beings and shooting them in cold blood is absolutely fucking evil and insane. It is not in any way an understandable reaction to anything. I think this cannot be understated. Even if we allow for the assumption that these were two dirty cops who were absolutely associated with the alleged “Executors” police gang, the guy who shot them is also a criminal, not some heroic citizen doing his part to rid the city of corrupt cops. The pox on both their houses. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/401 "2020-09-16T01:53:28Z")
It’s not just the killings; it’s also the cover-ups and collusion that are a problem: > **[Police leaders pressed Rochester to keep Prude video secret](https://apnews.com/article/6bc9e3d47027b2150cc723a948987886)** > > Rochester police commanders urged city officials to hold off on publicly releasing body camera footage of Daniel Prude's suffocation death because they feared violent blowback if the video came out during nationwide protests over the police killing... > [@](#): > > Deputy Chief Mark Simmons cited the “current climate” in the city and the nation in a June 4 email advising then-Chief La’ron Singletary to press the city’s lawyers to deny a Prude family lawyer’s public records request for the footage of the [March 23 encounter that led to his death](https://apnews.com/3e3ed5a3d5d8fda32ec4882dd2c6ca31). > [@](#): > > “We certainly do not want people to misinterpret the officers’ actions and conflate this incident with any recent killings of unarmed black men by law enforcement nationally,” Simmons wrote. “That would simply be a false narrative, and could create animosity and potentially violent blow back in this community as a result.” > > The Western New York city released the [emails, police reports and other documents](https://www.cityofrochester.gov/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=21474845189) on Monday as Mayor Lovely Warren fired Singletary and suspended Corporation Counsel Tim Curtin and Communications Director Justin Roj without pay for 30 days amid continuing fallout from Prude’s death. **Simmons was named interim chief of the police department.** (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > Lt. Mike Perkowski told a city lawyer on June 4 that he was “very concerned about releasing this prematurely in light of what is going on” and Capt. Frank Umbrino told another police official “any release of information should be in conjunction with and coordinated with the Mayor and the Chief as it very well have some intense ramifications.” > > Simmons forwarded both emails to Singletary with his message advising the chief to have the Prude family lawyer’s public records request squashed, according to the documents released Monday. Simmons suggested that the city deny the request because the case was still under investigation by the state attorney general’s office. > > “I totally agree,” Singletary replied, according to the emails. > > Later on June 4, as discussion of the records request continued, city lawyer Stephanie Prince told Curtin of a way to buy more time: allowing the attorney general’s office to show the family the video, as it has done in other cases, but not give them a copy of it. > > “This way, the City is not releasing anything pertaining to the case for at least a month (more like 2), and it will not be publicly available,” Prince wrote. Fire them all, I say. Everyone involved should be let go immediately. How can that community trust these people in leadership positions ever again? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=21)