# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 204
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4068 "2024-05-14T16:54:01Z")
New public trust announcement: “LA County police: Now with fewer rapists!” ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2024, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4069 "2024-06-01T13:56:13Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [Florida deputies who fatally shot a US airman burst into the wrong apartment, attorney says | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/police-shooting-airman-florida-8bcc82463ada69264389edf2a4f1a83d) > **[Florida sheriff's office fires deputy who fatally shot airman at home](https://apnews.com/article/airman-shot-florida-deputy-roger-fortson-c616444086b39d20a80f35ba86ec531b)** > > A Florida sheriff on Friday fired a deputy who fatally shot an airman at his home while holding a handgun pointed to the ground, saying the deputy’s life was never in danger and he should not have fired his weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4070 "2024-06-04T20:31:48Z")
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaIbYv78gSY) is YT news story (with jail video) of a 19 year old autistic man, begging for his meds, after he was arrested by Dayton, Ohio’s finest. More details are provided in a [DM news story](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13494173/autistic-teen-isaiah-trammell-cops-restrained-ohio-jail-video.html). Am guessing they thought he was on drugs. He should have received medical help. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4071 "2024-06-11T15:04:56Z")
I guess this is controversial because the cops did everything to deescalate the situation. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wR0vJOYMkkw/maxresdefault.jpg "Suspect in custody after Nolensville police cruiser rammed during pursuit") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR0vJOYMkkw) Our (retiring) Police Chief addressed a BLM march in 2020 and promised that there would never be a George Floyd type incident here as long as he was chief. I think he’s made good on his promise. Summery: Nolensville, TN police capture a suspect wanted in Michigan for attacking a judge after he rams their patrol car. Body cams show them trying to deescalate the situation. The suspect finally gets tasered after he bites a sheriff deputy who is there to take him to the county lock up. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4072 "2024-06-14T22:49:41Z")
From Washington Post today: Cops who sexually abuse children get treated with kid gloves, not just by other cops but by prosecutors and judges > **[An officer sexually abused a teen in his police car. How will he be punished?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2024/south-bend-police-child-sexual-abuse-punishment/)** > > South Bend police officer Timothy Barber met a teen at an Indiana Chick-fil-A and then sexually abused her in his patrol car. What punishment does he deserve? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4073 "2024-06-25T01:56:17Z")
Tirado was covering the protests on the night of May 29 when police officers fired **“nonlethal”** foam plastic bullets into the crowd. One of them hit her in the eye — even though she was wearing protective goggles and press credentials. > **[A journalist shot by police while covering the 2020 protests is dying of her...](https://www.npr.org/2024/06/21/nx-s1-5015030/linda-tirado-journalist-shot-police-2020-george-floyd-protests-hospice-care)** > > Linda Tirado, 42, lost her eye and suffered a brain injury after being shot by Minneapolis police in 2020. The National Press Club said she developed dementia as a result and "is at life's end." ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4074 "2024-06-25T14:18:07Z")
> **[Video raises questions about how trooper avoided charges in Black man's death](https://apnews.com/video/georgia-law-enforcement-legal-proceedings-national-national-a1e3c966f45044eab4442fa4b2cb974a)** > > Never-before-released dash camera video and details obtained by The Associated Press are raising questions about the fatal shooting of a Black motorist by a Georgia state trooper nearly four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![TheTooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@TheTooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTooth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4075 "2024-06-26T12:49:35Z")
Yeah. I know Linda and I’m kind of angry about this. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4076 "2024-06-27T15:28:06Z")
In a story that actually turned out the right way for once, a man that was arrested for flipping off a state trooper just received a $175,000 settlement. Hopefully this will be a lesson, at least for that trooper, that he can’t arrest someone for hurting his feelings (though it’s unfortunate that the people of Vermont will be the ones paying for the lesson). > **[He flipped off a trooper and got charged. Now Vermont is on the hook for...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/us/middle-finger-arrest-vermont/index.html)** > > Vermont has agreed to pay $175,000 to settle a lawsuit on behalf of a man who was charged with a crime for giving a state trooper the middle finger in 2018, the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union said Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4077 "2024-06-30T05:26:42Z")
This 13 year old had a replica handgun. > **[Video shows NY officer fatally shooting 13-year-old on ground. Police say he...](https://apnews.com/article/utica-new-york-police-shooting-teen-killed-c3cf272ccfaf12d48eaf93d235ace444)** > > Newly released video shows an officer in upstate New York fatally shooting a 13-year-old boy who had been tackled to the ground after he ran from police while pointing a replica handgun. > **[Utica Police bodycam footage released in shooting incident that killed...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpzfphvQIOA%2F)** > > Utica Police bodycam footage released in shooting incident that killed 13-year-old ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4078 "2024-06-30T10:39:23Z")
> **[Appeals Court Says Border Patrol Dog Is Capable Of Detecting The Difference...](https://www.techdirt.com/2024/06/28/appeals-court-says-border-patrol-dog-is-capable-of-detecting-the-difference-between-legal-and-illegal-humans/)** > > Law enforcement will always get more than a fair shake from the Fifth Circuit. No circuit is more apt to award immunity or otherwise refuse to punish officers for coloring outside of the constituti… This seems completely and utterly mad. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4079 "2024-06-30T13:31:32Z")
I’m going to agree with the article that a dog can’t detect a difference between “legal” and “illegal” humans. However, it can detect if people have been hidden, and that seems to me to be probable cause for a search. OK, you found people. Reasonable for the police to ask “Why are you in this hidden compartment instead of the passenger compartment? Oh, and are there proper seats / seat belts here?”. I don’t see this as an improper search, I don’t see this as improper charges. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4080 "2024-06-30T16:00:14Z")
The biggest problem with K9s is that they are also trained (perhaps not officially) to take cues from their handler. A police officer can instruct the dog to alert, using a subtle gesture or other imperceptible cue, and then proceed with a search because the dog allegedly detected something. The testimony of a dog should never be allowed, because it cannot honestly tell us exactly what it was reacting to. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4081 "2024-07-01T02:58:41Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > I’m going to agree with the article that a dog can’t detect a difference between “legal” and “illegal” humans. However, it can detect if people have been hidden, and that seems to me to be probable cause for a search. OK, you found people. Reasonable for the police to ask “Why are you in this hidden compartment instead of the passenger compartment? Oh, and are there proper seats / seat belts here?”. I don’t see this as an improper search, I don’t see this as improper charges. What the FUCK is an _illegal_ human? This kind of thing sickens me. It also intensifies my inclination towards prescriptivism. Makes me want to send the language police after the perpetrators. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4082 "2024-07-01T14:18:52Z")
Descriptivists bedamned. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4083 "2024-07-10T23:52:41Z")
> **[California police officer accused of sexually assaulting a woman he pursued...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-police-officer-accused-sexually-assaulting-woman-pursued-ru-rcna161193)** > > The unnamed woman says in a federal lawsuit that the alleged attack happened four months after he first noticed her at an In-N-Out restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2024, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4084 "2024-07-17T00:42:07Z")
Cops from Columbus, OH shot and killed a homeless man in Milwaukee, one mile away from where they were supposed to be providing security for the Republican convention. > **[Man police killed a mile from RNC security perimeter was homeless](https://www.rawstory.com/police-shoot-homeless-man-in-milwaukee-park-a-mile-from-rnc-security-perime/)** > > Columbus, Ohio police officers shot and killed a homeless man close to Milwaukee’s King Park on Tuesday. The shooting took place more than a mile from the security perimeter of the Republican National Convention, which has drawn more than 4,000... ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4085 "2024-07-17T01:02:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cops from Columbus, OH shot and killed a homeless man in Milwaukee, one mile away from where they were supposed to be providing security for the Republican convention. I read that earlier and was going to post about it in the RNC thread. In the [article](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2024/07/16/police-shooting-in-milwaukee-kills-1-outside-rnc-security-zone/74428028007/) I read, I came across this: > According to an agreement signed by partner agencies, any disciplinary matters that arise with an outside officer will be referred to the home agency. > > If the matter rises to the level of probable cause for a crime, it will be referred directly to MPD or an external law enforcement agency for investigation “with appropriate notice to Contractor,” according to the agreement. > > Under the agreement, officers from other jurisdictions will follow their home agency’s policies on body cameras. Columbus police do use body cameras. It was not immediately known if the officer involved in the shooting had a body camera. I’m curious if this is typical of this type of agreement. That is, if I’m a cop and I’m working in your jurisdiction, is it typical for me to follow the rules of my home jurisdiction or the one where I’m working? I would have thought a cop would have to follow the rules of their host city. What if we found out, for example, that Milwaukee purposely brought in cops from cities that didn’t require body cams. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2024, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4086 "2024-07-17T10:28:44Z")
Body Cam footage has been released. To my untrained eyes, having watched only this clip, only one time, ISTM these cops are entirely in the wrong. The video stops about a second before the shooting starts (but the audio keeps going), but from what I can tell, multiple cops started shooting before the man with the knives even appeared to know they were there. We can’t really tell based on the video(s) provided, but I won’t be surprised if at least some of those shots hit him in the back. I’m sure they’re going to say they shot him to protect the person he was in an altercation with. But I’d have thought that (at least) 6 cops could have stopped this guy with pepper spray or tasers. It would have ended the fight, it wouldn’t have been noteworthy (when the whole world is watching) and everyone would have slept in their own bed that night, including the deceased man’s dog. Edit: The MKE police chief seems to be backing the Ohio cops. > “Someone’s life was in danger,” he said. “These officers who are not from this area took upon themselves to act to save someone’s life today.” In one of the articles, Milwaukee cops are saying that this is _exactly_ whey out of town cops weren’t supposed to be working outside the secure zone on their own. From the article I previously posted (though it appears to have been updated since then) > Milwaukee police had said they [intended to assign outside officers to positions that are not public-facing](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/investigations/2024/07/09/rnc-2024-what-rules-do-milwaukee-police-follow-during-protests-tear-gas-mass-arrests/74313279007/) — such as traffic control — while Milwaukee officers would have primary contact with members of the community. Any assignments given to outside officers were supposed to include at least one Milwaukee police officer, according to the mutual aid agreement. and > If the Ohio officers were by themselves without MPD, [Milwaukee Ald. Robert] Bauman said, that would be a problem. > > “If it was an MPD officer, he would have known, no, no, no this is King Park, this is a known area for homeless to camp out, lots of folks with mental disabilities in here, tread carefully, de-escalate,” he said. > > He added: “They’re in unfamiliar territory and they don’t know King Park from Central Park.” I also see that those Ohio cops “were in their assigned zone related to RNC duties for potential demonstration response”. I’m curious what their mutual aid agreement says about engaging with non RNC situations. If they were assigned to that area for “potential demonstration response” and this was just random incident, entirely unrelated to the RNC, are they allowed to break it up? Can they use force, lethal or otherwise, to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2024, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4087 "2024-07-17T10:31:05Z")
Sounds to me like the Fresno Hell’s Angels were having trouble with the Pagans and called in the Visalia chapter for extra muscle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=203) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=205)