# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 211
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2025, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4208 "2025-02-01T05:32:25Z")
Only going by what I see in your post, but this looks suspiciously like suicide-by-cop here. He might have deliberately made the best gunshot sound he could manage, and the cops, primed by his earlier statement, fell right into the trap regardless of how authentic the sound actually was. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2025, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4209 "2025-02-01T12:14:12Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > Only going by what I see in your post, but this looks suspiciously like suicide-by-cop here. Two reasons I can think of for telling a cop, from behind a closed door, that you have a gun when you don’t, are suicide by cop or you don’t think it’s the cops, you think it’s someone that wants to harm you and trying to coax you out of hiding by saying they’re the police. But since he was hiding, I’m guessing he knew it was the police. I could see a situation where he was trying to exit the closet and _thought_ he had a gun on him or in the closet and was trying to warn the police, but I’m guessing that won’t be the case. As far as the noise, in my head, I pictured the suspect moving around in the closet and smacking into the door or knocking something off a shelf and making the noise. The cops are standing right there, guns drawn and expecting, based on “reliable” information, that he was armed. I’m saying “reliable” because, while it was incorrect, it came from the suspect himself. I’m WAGing that if the suspect states, even incorrectly, that they’re armed, the police can treat them as if they are, at least until they can prove otherwise. This all seems different than two cops emptying their guns into a suspect that’s been searched, handcuffed and sitting in the back of a squad car because an acorn fell and made a noise. For the cop’s sake, I hope the body cam footage exists and backs up what they’re saying. My fear is that it won’t. ie the noise will be him opening the door or we’ll find out the cops were yelling confusing commands (get out of the closet/don’t move, put your hands behind your back/stop reaching) and misheard him when he said he didn’t have a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4210 "2025-02-06T15:11:11Z")
Passenger ejected from a vehicle during a pursuit. Cop comes to a complete stop, then drives his car over the person. Luckily, they’ve investigated themselves and found they’ve done nothing wrong. The article has the dash cam video. > **[‘Blessed to still be here’: Dash cam shows MPD squad run over man during...](https://www.tmj4.com/about-us/lighthouse/blessed-to-still-be-here-dash-cam-shows-mpd-squad-run-over-man-during-pursuit-civil-suit-headed-to-trial)** > > Video obtained by TMJ4 shows a high-speed Milwaukee police chase that ended with a squad running over a man. He survived and his civil lawsuit against the city is scheduled to go to trial next month. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4211 "2025-02-08T07:26:50Z")
Lots of cases [going bye-bye](https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina/about-180-traffic-cases-dismissed-in-north-carolina-as-2-highway-patrol-troopers-under-investigation/). > [@](#): > > About 180 cases involving two North Carolina State Highway Patrol troopers have been dismissed or are under review in Wake County after questions about the credibility of the troopers arose. > > According to Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman, the state has decided to not move forward in approximately 180 cases involving Trooper Garrett Lee Macario and are reviewing about a dozen cases involving his supervisor, Sergeant Matthew Lindly Morrison, after some of their actions came into question. > > Freeman said her office was made aware of the credibility issues as a deadly Raleigh accident where Macario had been on scene was being investigated. > [@](#): > > During that review, Freeman said she “concluded that there were statements that were made by that trooper that appear to be false and misleading,” prompting her to open an investigation by the SBI. The state also decided not to move forward in pending cases involving Macario, leading to the dismissal of about 180 cases that Freeman said were predominantly related to driving while impaired charges. So 180 DUI cases are going to be thrown out. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4212 "2025-02-10T08:38:47Z")
In 2016, a 12-year-old girl in Polk County, FL reported to police that her adoptive father was raping her multiple times a week. The sheriff’s department (run by an Arpaio-esque grandstander who is predictably hard MAGA) apparently deliberately mishandled the case so as to purposefully not find evidence, accused her of lying, and threatened her with jail time to make her plead guilty to filing a false report, putting her on probation and making her apologize to her rapist. The next time he raped her, she took pictures. > **[Police didn’t believe a 12-year-old who said she'd been raped. Then she hit...](https://www.motherjones.com/criminal-justice/2024/11/taylor-cadle-polk-county-false-reporting-investigation/)** > > “If I didn’t find the evidence for them, I wasn’t too sure they would find it.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4213 "2025-02-15T23:13:01Z")
What do you call nine Nazis and a cop? Ten Nazis. > **[District calls for investigation after neo-Nazi group ends up outside local...](https://local12.com/news/local/district-calls-for-investigation-into-police-after-neo-nazi-gathering-on-school-grounds-cincinnati-lockland-lincoln-heights-officer-uhaul-protest-overpass-educational-annex)** > > The Lockland School Board says it has video of an Evendale officer leading the U-Haul van of neo-Nazis onto the property of Lockland Schools. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2025, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4214 "2025-03-03T04:59:52Z")
> Sgt. Shifflett was serving three years for killing a shoplifter in a fatal shooting two years ago. In 2023, Timothy Johnson was killed outside of Tysons Corner Center by Sgt. Shifflett. > > In February 2023, **Shifflett was chasing Johnson outside the mall for stealing sunglasses from Nordstrom**. Despite calls for Shifflett to drop to the ground, body camera footage captured him running into a wooded area. Shifflett fired his gun twice with one bullet hitting Johnson in the chest. > **[Former Fairfax County Sergeant gets sentence commuted by Gov. Youngkin in...](https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/crime/gov-glenn-youngkin-commutes-sgt-wesley-shifflett-sentence-shoplifting-tysons-corner-center/65-892721c2-6bc6-4be2-a061-c8cc243f696b)** > > "I am convinced that the court's sentence of incarceration is unjust and violates the cornerstone of our justice system." ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2025, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4215 "2025-03-03T13:28:32Z")
Perhaps someone can provide a gift link? > The officers have switched from Tasers to guns. They begin shooting. Officer Wong fires six shots. Officer Mays fires three. Passengers scream and rush for safety. Mr. Mickles, clutching the knife, takes a couple of steps and crumples to the train floor. > > “Put it down!” the officers yell. “Put it down! Put it down!” > > “I’m shot!” Officer Mays shouts as he stands across the platform from Mr. Mickles. In front of him, Mr. Mickles sits upright. Both officers, guns drawn, continue to shout at him to put the knife down. > > Officer Mays is yelling into his radio. One of the bullets has hit him [police officer] under the arm, and at least one is in Mr. Mickles’s abdomen [turnstile jumper]. Another lodged in Ms. Jahalal’s [passenger] left leg as she ran from the gunfire. Mr. Delpeche [passenger], who had moved as the police instructed, has been shot in the head. > **[One Hopped Turnstile, 9 Police Bullets, 4 People Shot. Does It Add Up?](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/nyregion/subway-shooting-brooklyn.html)** > > New York’s subway has been flooded with patrols to prevent crime and stop fare evasion. One Sunday in Brooklyn, it all went wrong. Well, it’s a small price to pay considering Mr. Mickles was trying to evade a $2.90 fare! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4216 "2025-03-03T13:50:43Z")
Here you go: > **[One Hopped Turnstile, 9 Police Bullets, 4 People Shot. Does It Add Up?](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/nyregion/subway-shooting-brooklyn.html?unlocked_article_code=1.1E4.3TMh.ht4eXmXg6rHH&smid=url-share)** > > New York’s subway has been flooded with patrols to prevent crime and stop fare evasion. One Sunday in Brooklyn, it all went wrong. That should be a gift link. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4217 "2025-03-03T20:49:09Z")
He should have stopped resisting: [https://www.quantumvibe.com/disppageV3?story=qv&file=/simages/qv/qv1-317.jpg](https://www.quantumvibe.com/disppageV3?story=qv&file=/simages/qv/qv1-317.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2025, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4218 "2025-03-10T02:16:51Z")
I guess it’s difficult to distinguish between a kidnapper and a kidnapping victim: > **[Judge awards nearly $2M after concluding FBI agent was negligent in shooting...](https://apnews.com/article/fbi-raid-houston-lawsuit-0d3e7ab470754d54dcf3423e3f9967ed)** > > A federal judge has awarded nearly $2 million in damages as part of a civil lawsuit after concluding an FBI agent was negligent when he fatally shot a kidnapped Texas man during a botched rescue attempt in 2018. It sounds like the victim’s family needed a better lawyer: $2 million appears to be below the going rate, ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4219 "2025-03-10T18:39:48Z")
> **[He asked for documentation of his arrest. Five years later, Wauwatosa police...](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/investigations/public-investigator/2025/03/10/wauwatosa-police-admit-to-loinsisted-they-gave-him-his-arrest-audio-for-years-they-actually-lost-it/79335354007/)** > > After Pete Sparks' arrest during a 2020 protest, he requested his booking audio. For years, Wauwatosa police said they had given him everything. Sparks is arrested in 2020. A few days after the arrest, he asked for audio/video recordings of his arrest. 90 days later, he was sent hundreds of videos, none of which contained his arrest. He made two more requests and was told they already sent him the video. 5 years later he gets the news involved, they make a request and are told they already sent him the video. After more pushing by the media, he was told all their recordings are deleted after 120 days. He sustained a head injury that night. He said the police did it, the police said he was already like that. This should be one of those situations where the police, having ‘lost’ all camera footage of him, should be assumed to be lying. Instead of him having to prove they injured him, let them find a way to prove they didn’t. Also, I hate the use of “Public Investigator” in third person. It feels like it should be “_The_ Public Investigator”. [![](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cc/62/43/cc6243ef9a55c6f8d359a85336794499.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cc/62/43/cc6243ef9a55c6f8d359a85336794499.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4220 "2025-03-10T21:50:20Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > This should be one of those situations where the police, having ‘lost’ all camera footage of him, should be assumed to be lying I thought that was an accepted [principle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_with_evidence#:~:text=The%20theory%20of%20the%20spoliation,motivation%20to%20avoid%25) but there’s apparently ways around it > The spoliation inference is a negative evidentiary inference that a [trier of fact](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier_of_fact) **can draw from a party’s destruction of evidence that is relevant to an ongoing or reasonably foreseeable [civil](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(common_law)) or [criminal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law) proceeding: the finder of fact can review all evidence uncovered in as strong a light as possible against the spoliator and in favor of the opposing party.** > However, in [U.S. federal courts](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._federal_courts), **updates to the [Federal Rules of Civil Procedure](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Rules_of_Civil_Procedure) in 2015 have resulted in significant decline in spoliation sanctions** ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4221 "2025-03-27T18:41:09Z")
Here’s a case of the encounter being between a police chief and his officers. > **[NJ Police Chief Accused of Pooping on Floor, Spiking Cops' Coffee With Viagra](https://www.tmz.com/2025/03/27/new-jersey-police-chief-robert-farley-poops-on-floor-spikes-coffee-viagra/)** > > A New Jersey police chief is being accused of creating a toxic -- and smelly -- work environment ... by defecating on the floors at the station, spiking officers' coffee with Viagra and Adderall, sticking a hypodermic needle into the penis of a... > He is also accused of shaving his body hair over work desks > the township has “full confidence in Chief Robert Farley’s leadership” and denies “these false and outrageous allegations.” [![](https://imagez.tmz.com/image/d6/4by3/2025/03/27/d67558a17e03487281406cd75be31e03_md.jpg) ](https://imagez.tmz.com/image/d6/4by3/2025/03/27/d67558a17e03487281406cd75be31e03_md.jpg) Based on the article, if he’s been working there for 26 years, I have to wonder if these are symptoms of a mental health issue. To be this big of an asshole for any length of time, is going to get you fired sooner or later. Drugging coffee, sticking people with needles, shitting on the floor, harassing co-workers and their families at their homes isn’t going to get you promoted to chief unless you have a plan for working alone when everyone quits. Obviously there’s more to it then that, but it says he made chief in 2024, and this behavior started after that. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4222 "2025-03-27T20:31:42Z")
> **[Study of Lyft rideshare data confirms minorities get more tickets](https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/03/study-of-lyft-rideshare-data-confirms-minorities-get-more-tickets/)** > > Researchers ascribe it to “animus or prejudice against minority drivers.”… Science proves police are racist. You can’t argue with science. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4223 "2025-03-27T20:44:05Z")
Unfortunately it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that black male motorists who have been stopped are more likely to turn up on warrant searches than a random white motorist. The police are more likely to regard stopping the latter as a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4224 "2025-03-27T21:46:03Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > black male motorists who have been stopped Stopped for what? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4225 "2025-03-27T22:24:13Z")
I think @Lumpy is saying that Black motorists are stopped for BS reasons more often, which builds up a record, which leads to more hits when they get stopped more often, which encourages more stops, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4226 "2025-03-28T01:43:54Z")
A word of warning to anyone clicking on the above TMZ article on out-of-control NJ police chief - do not look directly into those eyes. They’re not right. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4227 "2025-03-28T02:46:05Z")
I think you are mistaken about **Lumpy** ’s point, which is to imply that African-Americans are more predisposed to criminal activity. You are welcome to give that poster the benefit of the doubt, but from what I have seen, the less-favorable interpretation is more likely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=210) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=212)