# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 220
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4388 "2026-07-31T02:53:45Z")
> Leon Davis appeared anxious and confused the morning of March 14 at a Federal Way hospital, where he had admitted himself two days earlier for alcohol withdrawal syndrome. > > He repeatedly left his room and threatened to jump from a window. Staff called security and eventually police. Eight officers wrestled him into handcuffs, knelt on his arms and legs and held him face down, grinding his bloodied face into the linoleum floor and covering his head with a mesh and fabric bag called a spit hood. > > Laughter could be heard as Davis cried for help and said he couldn’t breathe. Several nurses and at least one doctor looked on. Thirty-five minutes later, Davis was dead on the hospital floor. > **[Man pinned by police at WA hospital died as doctor, nurses watched](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/man-pinned-by-police-at-wa-hospital-died-as-doctor-nurses-watched/)** > > Leon Davis admitted himself into a Federal Way hospital for alcohol withdrawal syndrome. Two days later, police pinned him to the hospital floor, killing him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4389 "2026-08-10T15:47:22Z")
We just had a strange police shooting occur locally. This occurred yesterday at a Super 8 motel in Henrietta, NY. A man in his sixties (his name has not been released) was reported as threatening to kill himself with a box cutter. The police arrived and repeatedly ordered him to drop the box cutter. When he refused to do so, two police officers shot (and killed) him. There are a lot of questions here. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4390 "2026-08-10T15:53:11Z")
Suicide by cop? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4391 "2026-08-10T15:53:43Z")
Do you have a link to a news report? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4392 "2026-08-10T15:57:30Z")
> **[Two Monroe County sheriff's deputies shoot and kill man during investigation...](https://13wham.com/news/local/two-monroe-county-sheriff-deputies-shoot-and-kill-man-during-investigation-in-henrietta-super-8-motel-lehigh-station-road-monroe-county-sheriffs-office-new-york-state-attorney-generals-office)** > > Two Monroe County sheriff deputies fatally shot a man in his 60s at a Super 8 Motel in Henrietta after a suicidal person call. He was armed with a box cutter, died at the scene; AG’s Office investigating. [https://www.rochesterfirst.com/monroe-county-sheriffs-office/man-in-his-60s-shot-killed-by-deputies-at-henrietta-motel/](https://www.rochesterfirst.com/monroe-county-sheriffs-office/man-in-his-60s-shot-killed-by-deputies-at-henrietta-motel/) > **[Man in his 60s shot and killed by Monroe County deputies at Henrietta Super 8...](https://www.whec.com/top-news/large-mcso-investigation-at-super-8-by-wyndham-on-lehigh-station-road/)** > > A man in his 60s died after Monroe County Sheriff's deputies shot him at a Super 8 motel on Lehigh Station Road on Monday afternoon. Chief Deputy Michael Fowler said 911 received calls around 3:53 p.m. for a suicidal man at the motel. Deputies... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4393 "2026-08-10T16:01:05Z")
Thank you. I am seeing no reports that he came at them or that he threatened anyone but himself. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4394 "2026-08-10T16:16:28Z")
Yes, you would think if there had been any factors like that involved the police would have wanted to make sure they were presented to the public in the initial reports. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4395 "2026-08-10T16:27:49Z")
Usually, they just claim it, and then video surfaces that says it isn’t true. But, at least they claim he was threatening them before shooting him. All I can say is, thank god they shot him before he had a chance to \, uh, kill himself and no one else. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4396 "2026-08-10T17:12:10Z")
I’ve thought that police working in pairs ought to have one be a “point man”, unarmed but dressed in heavy protective gear, who initiates contact. The other hangs back prepared to shoot _ **if** _ things go seriously wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4397 "2026-08-10T17:24:19Z")
Not gonna happen when the goal apparently is to win the “Bang! Bang!” Game. There are no points for the cop who plays peacekeeper role. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4398 "2026-08-10T17:40:53Z")
A few days ago a Flock camera spotted a homicide suspect. Multiple officers caught up with her and pulled her over, at gunpoint, on the freeway. Turns out she wasn’t a suspect, the local police chief blamed another PD for the mistake. Turns out it’s the second time she’s been pulled over like that in a week. > **[Brookfield police chief defends officers' high-risk traffic stop based on...](https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/in-your-community/waukesha-county/brookfield-police-chief-defends-officers-high-risk-traffic-stop-based-on-flock-alert)** > > The Brookfield police chief is defending a high-risk traffic stop conducted by officers Thursday afternoon after receiving a Flock alert. This from the chief: > Garcia said the stop was consistent with “components of reasonable suspicion, probable cause and objective reasonableness.” That’s bizarrely vague. To me, that means they couldn’t make it any less vague without mentioning the use of Flock cameras since that’s the only way they would’ve spotted her car on the freeway. Also, I ran across this: [![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/0f/76/0f76b548-bc58-4f25-abc3-3f5ebca07da4/content/images/size/w1000/2026/08/CleanShot-2026-08-04-at-07.27.52@2x.png) ](https://storage.ghost.io/c/0f/76/0f76b548-bc58-4f25-abc3-3f5ebca07da4/content/images/size/w1000/2026/08/CleanShot-2026-08-04-at-07.27.52@2x.png) > **[‘DO NOT MENTION ALPR USAGE’: How Cops Are Trying to Hide Their Use of Flock](https://www.404media.co/do-not-mention-alpr-usage-how-cops-are-trying-to-hide-the-existence-of-flock/)** > > “DO NOT MENTION ALPR USAGE TO THE OCCUPANTS OF THE VEHICLE. DO NOT MENTION ALPR USAGE IN YOUR REPORT OR COMPLAINT." ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4399 "2026-08-10T17:46:43Z")
Flock. They are not even trying to hide the fact they think of everyone as sheep. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4400 "2026-08-10T17:51:26Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I’ve thought that police working in pairs ought to have one be a “point man”, unarmed but dressed in heavy protective gear, who initiates contact. The other hangs back prepared to shoot _ **if** _ things go seriously wrong. I used to do that back when I was working. (Granted we usually didn’t involve guns.) I would go down and talk to the guy while other people were getting ready to roll on him. It actually worked more often then you would expect. It turns out that a Plan A of talking become a lot more persuasive when the guy knows that Plan B is getting ready. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4401 "2026-08-10T17:52:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not gonna happen when the goal apparently is to win the “Bang! Bang!” Game. I think it’s cheating to be the only team that has guns. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4402 "2026-08-10T19:45:14Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Flock. Funny, I never heard of those before today, when the NY Times ran an article about them (gift link): [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/10/us/flock-cameras-can-track-every-car-in-america-police-love-them-citizens-dont.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.4VA.cJOi.Ln8nGTV9oouG&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/10/us/flock-cameras-can-track-every-car-in-america-police-love-them-citizens-dont.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4VA.cJOi.Ln8nGTV9oouG&smid=url-share) ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4403 "2026-08-10T20:44:30Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I never heard of those before today They’ve been around for a while. And they’ve been abused by law enforcement also for a while. [https://ij.org/police-have-reportedly-used-license-plate-readers-to-stalk-romantic-interests-at-least-14-times-in-recent-years/](https://ij.org/police-have-reportedly-used-license-plate-readers-to-stalk-romantic-interests-at-least-14-times-in-recent-years/) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2026, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4404 "2026-08-10T21:23:59Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > And they’ve been abused by law enforcement also for a while. In fact, I was going to suggest we might need a separate thread just for those cases. Interestingly, a local _gun shop_ has a bunch of them on their property. I’m genuinely curious how the right wingers feel about that one. How does the “you don’t need to worry if you’re not doing anything wrong” crowd feel about the cops knowing who goes to the shooting range/gun store? They’ve been there for at least a few months, probably closer to a year, but recently a youtube video about them got some media attention and the owner took them down. Or rather, he asked Flock to take them down, but they wouldn’t because of their contract, so he took them down himself. Regarding Flock, in general, the backlash does seem to be slowing them down a bit, but I think it’s going to take some Flock based mistakes, against the ‘wrong’ (read: Right) person for the rest of the RW to realize that maybe these things aren’t worth the trouble. It’s too bad, used properly, I think they have the potential to be a good thing, but without some major changes in how they’re used\*, it’s just going to be one problem after another. \*At the very least, warrants…they should require a warrant. Instead of being able to scribble down “test” or “sus vehicle” or “related to case” in the reason section that no one will ever see, how about you convince a judge why you need to whatever it is that you’re looking for. I mean, if cops aren’t doing anything wrong, they don’t need to be worried about it. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2026, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4405 "2026-08-11T08:05:48Z")
John Oliver did a good piece on them this week. > **[John Oliver on police surveillance: ‘Big Brother on steroids’](https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2026/aug/03/john-oliver-police-surveillance-cameras)** > > The host tore into ‘wildly invasive’ cameras, microphones and license plate readers that police use to track Americans ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2026, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4406 "2026-08-11T13:55:13Z")
Police in Wisconsin used Flock cameras to track a man leaving Wisconsin (where weed is illegal) and going to Michigan (where weed is legal) and used that as a pretextual stop to search his car when he came back. Guess what they found? > **[Wisconsin Cops Tracked a Man Across State Lines With Flock Cameras to Arrest...](https://www.google.com/share.google?q=cqhy8oSkcrwgJJ6bo)** > > Badger state? More like Surveillance State. In a few months I’ll be traveling from Missouri through Arkansas and I’m pretty sure my Missouri license plates are going to be used for a cop to gin up a reason to pull me over as soon as I cross the state line. Fortunately I’m not that dumb and will be leaving my legal Missouri doob at home. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2026, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4407 "2026-08-24T02:23:07Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > An Illinois Sheriff’s deputy has been charged in the death of Sonya Massey, a woman who called authorities to report a possible intruder and was shot in her own home. Well, he didn’t serve his full 20 years; he was just killed by his own ass. > **[Sean Grayson, former Sangamon County deputy convicted in killing of Sonya...](https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/sean-grayson-former-sangamon-county-deputy-dies-in-prison/)** > > Grayson, 32, was found guilty last October of second-degree murder for the shooting of Sonya Massey and was serving a 20-year sentence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=219) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=221)