# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/442 "2020-09-24T12:34:44Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > ETA: This is very sad, just like it’s sad when you use a drone to blow up a terrorist and a cute little girl becomes collateral damage. But I don’t believe it’s 100 percent possible to completely avoid ever having either scenario happen without letting some very violent and dangerous people run roughshod over an even greater number of innocents and striking continual fear in many more. The scenario is exactly a bunch of very violent and dangerous thugs (namely the police) running roughshod of an even greater number of innocents and striking continual fear in many more. Letting the murderous scum get off without any charges tells those innocents that their lives don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/443 "2020-09-24T12:54:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I mean, my own infantry training taught me that if you come under fire, the first thing you should do is take cover and assess the situation. You don’t just blast away blindly - not only is it irresponsible, it’s also stupid. The problem is, most police training probably leads to some stupid outcomes. It’s the training at the local level that is the problem, starting with how police officers assess threats and including how they respond to threats once they’ve been determined. Police officers here have been trained that their lives are what matters and that they lives of individuals in the community can be treated as “collateral” or “incidental” damage if they’ve decided to neutralize a human threat. Nothing will change unless communities demand that the standards be changed, and we’ve already seen how the police unions have resisted these kinds of institutional changes already. It tells me that they enjoy having that kind of special power, status, and immunity to treat human life as disposable. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/444 "2020-09-24T13:23:00Z")
You haven’t articulated when exactly those two officers became criminals. Presumably you don’t think they already were when they woke up and ate breakfast that morning. Walk me through it, tell me when exactly they committed a felony and how they should have avoided it. You can’t just describe in general terms that it is unjust that Taylor was killed and that “the police” did it. There must be a line crossed when these two individual people, who had this job and were ordered to go enforce a warrant, committed a crime that should result in their imprisonment. This is a different question from reforming department policies and so on. We are talking about the legal status, the freedom, of these two men. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/445 "2020-09-24T13:43:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Walk me through it, tell me when exactly they committed a felony and how they should have avoided it. They broke into someone’s home at midnight because that person was _claimed_ to receive packages. Before invading this person’s home, did they ask any clarifying questions? Such as “How do we know this?” Are they law enforcement officers, or are they just weapons to be aimed at whomever the higher ups direct? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/446 "2020-09-24T13:48:17Z")
The latter. They have a warrant signed by a judge. The judge should face questions, as should the detective who sought the warrant. But the cops who shot Taylor are just grunts who are sent to enforce the judge’s decree. They don’t have the option to refuse unless they quit their job. And in fact they don’t have enough information to even know whether the reasons behind the warrant might be dubious. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/447 "2020-09-24T14:00:37Z")
If they were all firing blindly through the door, why was only one officer charged? Because his shots happened to miss while the other ones happen to hit? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/448 "2020-09-24T14:01:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I can’t seem to find anyone who has actually posted the video, but “They chased the unarmed boy and then shot him” is not a sequence of words that suggests to me the shooting was justified. Here you go: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/tKUnbgcDGQo/maxresdefault.jpg "13-year-old boy with autism is shot by Salt Lake City police") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKUnbgcDGQo) I haven’t seen any mention, but I had assumed this poor kid was probably black. Watching the video, I don’t think it is true. It really is sickening to watch this cop empty his mag for no apparent reason that I can see. And fuck Breonna Taylor’s assassins and all involved that led up to her cold-blooded murder. It’s a system rigged top to bottom. Those assholes were firing all over the place: “In response, the officers opened fire with more than 20 rounds, hitting objects in the living room, dining room, kitchen, hallway, bathroom, and both bedrooms.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/449 "2020-09-24T14:06:39Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Are they law enforcement officers, or are they just weapons to be aimed at whomever the higher ups direct? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > The latter. Yet, we’re supposed to respect them? Mindless weapons directed by the government. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/450 "2020-09-24T14:24:02Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yet, we’re supposed to respect them? Mindless weapons directed by the government. New recruiting posters: Join the police force; travel to exotic, distant homes; meet exciting, unusual people and kill them. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/451 "2020-09-24T14:31:12Z")
Well, having watched the SLC shooting video, I have to conclude it’s not as bad as I feared. It’s worse. That’s attempted murder. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/452 "2020-09-24T14:35:44Z")
Maybe after the police academy graduation, we can save everyone a lot of time, and lives, and have them walk off the stage and straight into their eventual jail cell. Yes, that is tongue-in-cheek. Slightly. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/453 "2020-09-24T14:54:02Z")
How can you tell? The video seems too dark and blurry to tell anything at all. We see a person, but can’t see at all what the person is doing. As far as I can see, he could have been holding a Desert Eagle (very large handgun) and it wouldn’t show up in the video at the time of the shooting. Or maybe his hands were empty and visible and he wasn’t moving a muscle. I certainly can’t tell from that video. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/454 "2020-09-24T14:56:49Z")
Do you think that the cop that shot him was only able to see what was in the video? ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/455 "2020-09-24T14:58:38Z")
No I don’t. Which is why I wonder at such certainly from watching the video. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/456 "2020-09-24T15:20:13Z")
It’s not just the video. We _know_ that he didn’t have a Desert Eagle. We know that he was unarmed. We knew all that before the video was released. The video just shows how the interaction went down. When combining that with the rest of the knowledge that we have about it, it makes the video pretty damning. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/457 "2020-09-24T15:56:13Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > The video seems too dark and blurry to tell anything at all. We see a person, but can’t see at all what the person is doing. As far as I can see, he could have been holding a Desert Eagle (very large handgun) and it wouldn’t show up in the video at the time of the shooting. But he wasn’t. So why did the cop shoot him? What in the video necessitated opening fire? ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/458 "2020-09-24T16:17:28Z")
Agreed. Also, if a trained police officer doesn’t at least take a second to pause and think: why am I busting through a wooden fence to apprehend a child who hasn’t broken any laws? we need either different training or different police officers. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/459 "2020-09-24T16:23:50Z")
You gotta make sure that he doesn’t wander out into the street, he could be hurt. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/460 "2020-09-24T16:24:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So why did the cop shoot him? I don’t know. > [@RickJay](#): > > What in the video necessitated opening fire? Nothing. But I don’t think the video clearly shows it wasn’t either. Too dark and blurry to see. Note that I’m not saying anything about the totality of circumstances. I’m reacting only to the claim “the video shows it’s clearly murder”. I simply don’t think the video provides much information either way unless you can see something in it I don’t see. Again, I’m not claiming the officers were justified. I’m claiming the video in itself does not offer convincing evidence they were not. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/461 "2020-09-24T19:25:46Z")
If nobody is criminally responsible for Breonna Taylor’s death, why did the city settle with the family for $12 million? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=24)