# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/522 "2020-09-29T11:10:12Z")
Like that will make a difference. I’m sure he could get his hands on just about any type of gun he wants. He has lots of cop friends to help him out. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/523 "2020-09-29T11:55:03Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Luckily for him he wasn’t playing with a toy truck. That’s a death sentence. Technically they didn’t kill the guy with the toy truck, they just shot the social worker who was laying down next to him begging the police to not shoot because the guy was holding a toy. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/524 "2020-09-29T12:00:38Z")
Ah, I got confused about which unarmed, defenseless guy they shot. Technically right is the best kind of right! When I read the story about Brad Pasquale, the first thing that came to mind was all those articles about people calling the cops for their mentally ill family member just to have the cops shoot the family member. Of course, if it’s a heavily armed white guy in a nice home, they find a way to de-escalate. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/525 "2020-09-29T14:16:40Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Ah, I got confused about which unarmed, defenseless guy they shot. It really is hard to keep track. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/526 "2020-09-29T16:59:30Z")
Lucky the unarmed defenseless guy ain’t the one who CALLED the police. That will get you killed! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/527 "2020-09-29T18:52:55Z")
The cop who shot the therapist who was trying to get the cops not to shoot the autistic man with a toy truck?? > Officer Jonathan Aledda was found not guilty on two felony counts of attempted manslaughter, but the jury found him guilty on one misdemeanor count of culpable negligence, according to Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle. That’s right. He shot a man not suspected of anything, who complied with all commands, who was laying on his back with arms in the air next to an autistic man holding a toy truck…was found guilty of a single count of ‘culpable negligence’ > Aledda, a then four-year member of the North Miami police force and a SWAT team member, said he thought Kinsey’s life was in danger [and was trying to shoot Rios-Soto but missed] So…he though Kinsey’s life was in danger…from the autistic man holding a toy truck, who Kinsey was pleading with officer’s NOT to shoot. So he TRIED to shoot the autistic man holding a toy truck and missed, hitting the black man, who just happened to be in the line of fire. If he had shot the autistic man with a toy truck, he would have been hailed as a hero. > Kinsey, who said he was handcuffed and left on the road for 20 minutes until paramedics arrived, is suing the city. At least two officers who said they were demoted or fired after they criticized the response to the scene and a subsequent internal report on the shooting have also sued the city. The man they shot, who was not suspected of anything, was handcuffed after he was shot. Cops who criticized the response were punished. The cop who shot was Kinsey and was convicted of ‘culpable negligence’ got probation. His lawyer voiced his disappointment. He though Aledda should never have been charged. Culpable Negligence is legalese for ‘idiot douchebag’. I understand this is old. It just sticks in my craw. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/528 "2020-09-29T18:54:31Z")
Yeah, that one is a doozy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/529 "2020-09-30T03:30:50Z")
# Breonna Taylor case grand juror: We weren’t given the option of indicting the two cops who shot her. > **[Grand juror: We weren’t given the option of indicting the two officers who...](https://www.salon.com/2020/09/29/breonna-taylor-case-grand-juror-we-werent-given-the-option-of-indicting-the-two-cops-who-shot-her/?fbclid=IwAR2i9qDigVXfHWxSEM995M9kpJrj4lO778_fxQhyvpjYIX3PUqfJ_qQAGkE)** > > Grand juror said AG Daniel Cameron misrepresented the deliberations. Cameron agreed to release grand jury recordings And if you think that juror is making things up: “The attorney general’s office said it is “confident” in the case they presented but acknowledged that jurors were not given the option of indicting Sgt. Jonathan Mattingly and Det. Myles Cosgrove in Taylor’s shooting.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/530 "2020-09-30T05:03:47Z")
It sounds like it was theatre; that’s all. “See? We did a grand jury and _everything_!” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/531 "2020-09-30T13:49:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > For those incensed that those two cops were not charged with a crime for killing Breonna Taylor, what crime exactly do you think they should have been charged with? Can you cite the statute? Or articulate a legal/ethical principle? If you are with a group committing a felony and someone dies, you can be charged with felony murder. But then again in the United States, cops are not held accountable for breaking the law while on duty - hence this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/532 "2020-09-30T14:33:51Z")
It really is amazing to me that random people on the street are held to a higher standard than ‘trained’ police officers. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/533 "2020-09-30T17:01:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If you are with a group committing a felony and someone dies, you can be charged with felony murder. > But then again in the United States, cops are not held accountable for breaking the law while on duty - hence this thread. The group was not committing a felony, they were executing a warrant. Even if the shooting was not justified, everything up to that point was legal. So felony murder does not come into play. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/534 "2020-10-01T00:22:29Z")
[# San Jose cop charged after video shows rough arrest](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/san-jose-cop-charged-after-video-shows-rough-arrest/ar-BB19Augu?li=BBnb7Kz) > Rodriguez said that the woman did not comply with his commands Turns out he’s a lying liar…and he was LYING. > The woman complied when Rodriguez ordered her to get on the ground, the office said. Rodriguez then said “I’m going to kick you in the (expletive) face” and kicked her in the stomach, according to both the office and to a DoorDash worker’s video of the interaction obtained by [CBS San Francisco] ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/535 "2020-10-01T02:27:28Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > No, but civilians do things at the direction of others all the time. If those things turn out to be illegal or dangerous, they don’t get to fall back on “I was following orders.” to justify it. Sure they do, if they have no way to know the higher-ups did something improper before they were brought in on it. Like a technician in the control room being told to open the floodgates on a dam, without knowing that the manager of the operation had failed to do due diligence in inspecting the area below the dam to make sure there was no one who might get drowned if she followed the order. Technically she was the proximate cause of the death, but that doesn’t make her morally or legally culpable. Speaking of not hearing something, I notice no one has anything to say about the Tulsa video I posted. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/536 "2020-10-01T02:44:40Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Speaking of not hearing something, I notice no one has anything to say about the Tulsa video I posted. Speaking of not hearing something, I notice that haven’t had anything to say about the recent Breonna Taylor Grand Jury revelations. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/537 "2020-10-01T05:36:38Z")
You mean that they were not given the option to indict those two cops? They weren’t given the option to indict you or me either. It would have been absurd to indict those two, so it makes sense that it was not an option. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/538 "2020-10-01T09:33:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Like a technician in the control room being told to open the floodgates on a dam, Let’s put it this way. Imagine that dam operators around the country killed 1,000 people a year due to bad training and controls. They defended their practices as being the only valid way to run a dam, ignoring best practices put on display by dam operators in other countries, where they kill a lot less than 1,000 people a year. They lie about how the deaths they cause come about. They only began to grudgingly change practices after nationwide protests over the people they routinely killed. Then yeah, those mother fuckers deserve to be in prison. Dam operators in the real world would be horrified at a death on their watch, a death caused by their failure to exercise due care. They would 100% examine and re-evaluate their procedures, and institute additional safety protocols in the honest attempt to ensure it doesn’t happen again. The police haven’t done that, they refuse to even acknowledge that they have a responsibility to prevent these deaths. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/539 "2020-10-01T11:04:46Z")
I think the complaint is that the DA or whoever made it seem like the grand jury chose not to indict those other cops. That’s why the juror spoke up and called bullshit. Indicting someone is relatively easy – it’s the DA’s show. In NJ, all shootings-by-cop have to be brought in front of a grand jury. Whether the DA tries hard to indict the cop is another story, but the jury certainly has the option to indict. I have zero idea what the law is in Kentucky. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/540 "2020-10-01T12:23:20Z")
This is a bad example, as utility technicians like that are actually required to do their own due diligence and ensure that their actions are safe to do, and not to just blindly trust their superiors. They will be held accountable if they were to follow an order that ended up with some sort of loss of life or property if they did not verify that what they were doing was safe to do. Unlike cops. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/541 "2020-10-01T19:36:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Unlike cops. Held to a lower standard than anyone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=28)