# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/622 "2020-10-31T03:50:18Z")
Kentucky State Police training documents urges cadets to be “ruthless killer[s]” and quotes Adolf Hitler advocating violence. > **[KSP training slideshow quotes Hitler, advocates ‘ruthless’ violence](https://manualredeye.com/90096/news/local/police-training-hitler-presentation/)** > > Student journalists obtained a KSP Powerpoint presentation encouraging trainees to adopt a “warrior mindset.” ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/623 "2020-10-31T03:52:50Z")
This is, by the way, a student production put out by a Louisville high school. I am beyond impressed with their journalism. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/624 "2020-10-31T13:13:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Kentucky State Police training documents urges cadets to be “ruthless killer[s]” and quotes Adolf Hitler advocating violence. Situations like this lend credence to calls to defund the police. Starting over might be the only way. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/625 "2020-10-31T16:23:57Z")
Defund the Schutzstaffel! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/626 "2020-10-31T16:41:31Z")
This one comes from Madison, Wisconsin and is kind of unusual: > **[Lawyer: Wisconsin cop can't be fired for future shooting](https://apnews.com/article/wisconsin-fires-shootings-police-milwaukee-73da7e896861d6f5ab3f56c1d539c8df)** > > MADISON, Wis. (AP) — An attorney for a Wisconsin police officer who has fatally shot three people since 2015 says his client shouldn't be disciplined or fired simply because city officials are... ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/627 "2020-10-31T17:20:27Z")
This pilot has crashed 3 jetliners, but we should not fire him before his next crash happens. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/628 "2020-10-31T17:23:20Z")
Yeah, but did you see the way the ground was looking at him? What did you expect him to do? He was in fear for his life. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/629 "2020-10-31T18:07:02Z")
Did anyone besides Bo bother reading the article? The cop had three shootings mentioned. Shooting #1, the guy was armed with a sword. No charges. Shooting #2, the guy was sitting in a parked car in a city park after hours. Had a gun sitting next to him. No charges, but I agree that one could be sketchy. Shooting #3, the guy was himself armed with a handgun, was shooting back at the officer during a foot chase, and didn’t drop the pistol. Maybe because Genius shot himself in the arm while trying to hit the cop. No charges. On the facts as given in the article—and I agree with Bo, it’s not a set of facts you see every day—what would the City of Madison have preferred happened in those three cases? Get cut up a bit with that sword before shooting? Let Car Guy grab the gun first? I’m just bemused. It doesn’t look like—again, from the facts given in the article—that this officer did anything wrong. On the contrary, Officer Mensah appears to be the kind of diligent officer you would want on your police force. Certainly, my opinion could change with additional evidence not mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/630 "2020-10-31T18:12:38Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Shooting #2, the guy was sitting in a parked car in a city park after hours. Had a gun sitting next to him. No charges, but I agree that one could be sketchy. > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Let Car Guy grab the gun first? Funny, how he can’t be punished for any future thing he might do, yet you make it sound like he killed this guy for something he may have done in the future. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/631 "2020-10-31T18:19:32Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > It’s actually heartbreaking all around No, it’s really only heartbreaking in regards to the fact the young man was killed. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/632 "2020-10-31T18:25:01Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > > > Shooting #2, the guy was sitting in a parked car in a city park after hours. Had a gun sitting next to him. No charges, but I agree that one could be sketchy. > > > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > > > Let Car Guy grab the gun first? > > Funny, how he can’t be punished for any future thing he might do, yet you make it sound like he killed this guy for something he may have done in the future. I can’t believe I have to explain this to people, but here goes. Yes, if you have an exposed weapon, and a cop tells you to get away from it, or don’t touch it, and you persist in disobeying their lawful commands, s/he can kill you over something you _might_ do. The question is, “Is there an imminent threat of unlawful deadly force?” Depending on where the weapon is, the previous actions of the person threatening unlawful deadly force, and other things that make up the totality of the circumstances, there can be an imminent threat towards that officer without the weapon being pointed at the officer, or even in the actor’s hand. S/He doesn’t have to wait for you to grab it and point it at the officer, in order for the officer to stop that imminent threat with deadly force… Though if the actor did point the weapon at the officer, that would make it easier for the officer to articulate an imminent threat of deadly force. Somewhere between a guy eating his lunch in his car, weapon all the way across the cabin in the passenger door, and the guy seat belted in the drivers seat. (I.e., the weapon is visible, but not readily reachable), and the guy firing the weapon at the officer, is the line where an reasonably objective person would determine there was an imminent deadly threat. I don’t know where that line was in this shooting, which is why I said it could be sketchy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/633 "2020-10-31T18:50:12Z")
Where have you gone, Officer Friendly? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you Ooo ooo ooo. What’s that you say, Mrs. Robinson? “Officer Friendly has left and gone away” Hey hey hey ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/634 "2020-10-31T19:21:27Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > the previous actions of the person threatening unlawful deadly force, and other things that make up the totality of the circumstances, You’re making “He said he saw a gun in the car and thought Anderson was reaching for it so he opened fire” do a LOT of work to get to that statement. Given other statements by those who have viewed the video and the fact that police MOVED THE GUN before investigators arrived makes it seem just a little bit fishy. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/635 "2020-10-31T20:37:48Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I can’t believe I have to explain this to people, but here goes. Yes, if you have an exposed weapon, and a cop tells you to get away from it, or don’t touch it, and you persist in disobeying their lawful commands, s/he can kill you over something you _might_ do. In this case, the officer said he thought he saw the man reaching for the gun. This is more than slightly problematic. And, what else do we have to go on? Are there other reliable (i.e., non-police) witnesses? Because, it has come to the point where we simply cannot trust what the police say happened (I mean, it appears that lying and faking evidence has been pervasive for a very long time, but we used to be able to trust them because they were able to hide their lies better). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/636 "2020-10-31T20:47:25Z")
I started a thread in Elections, because this is the worst election-suppression violence I’ve seen in my lifetime, but [cops in North Carolina attacked a voting march today, in a Republican county that Democrats have been trying to flip](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article246861942.html#storylink=cpy): > [@](#): > > Alamance County sheriff’s deputies and Graham police pepper-sprayed people — including a 5-year-old girl and other children — who were participating in the “I Am Change” march to the polls on Saturday afternoon.A racially diverse group of about 200 people walked with a police escort from Wayman’s Chapel AME Church to Court Square, where they held a rally encouraging people to vote. The event was organized by Rev. Greg Drumwright, a Burlington native who leads the the Citadel Church in Greensboro, according to his website. Unless some astonishing facts come out, there are a lot of cops that should face prison time over this. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/637 "2020-10-31T21:53:07Z")
They truly are little more than terrorists with badges. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/638 "2020-10-31T22:05:05Z")
> [@](#): > > The Graham Police Department said a local activist organized a march to the downtown historic courthouse. He was directed to petition for permission to temporarily close the road for the march, but because of deadlines and proximity to a polling site, this was denied. > > A permit was issued to use county property to hold a rally, and police said they worked with the organizer to stay out of streets that were needed for voting access. A public safety plan was provided for the march. > > Marchers blocked the street during the rally for more than nine minutes, according to police. Traffic began to back up. > > Police said the group was given a warning to clear the roadway, and when people failed to do so, they were sprayed with pepper spray. > > Once people were out of the street, they were allowed to speak on the stage, but within an hour, police said “as a result of actions that occurred within the rally, on courthouse grounds, the assembly reached a level of conduct that led to the rally being deemed unsafe and unlawful by unified command.” > > People were ordered to disperse, people were arrested and pepper spray was used again, police said. > > The Graham Police Department arrested eight people for resisting delay and obstruction, failure to disperse and assault on a law enforcement officer. > **[Officials pepper spray, arrest people after traffic blocked during Graham...](https://www.wxii12.com/article/graham-vote-rally-police-pepper-spray/34541115#)** > > A voting rally in Graham became chaotic after police pepper-sprayed and arrested marchers after they blocked traffic Saturday afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/639 "2020-10-31T22:27:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Police said the group was given a warning to clear the roadway, and when people failed to do so, they were sprayed with pepper spray. So much for proportionality. Unless they were being violent, pepper spray is not an acceptable response to blocking traffic. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/640 "2020-11-01T01:36:43Z")
I’m confused. I though pepper spray/tear gas was a proportional response to an unruly mob refusing to obey legal orders to disperse and clear the area. Please tell, what methods would you recommend to restore order? Forget, for the sake of argument, that you consider one side to be Democrats and the other Republicans (which, I might point out, is not a given). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/641 "2020-11-01T01:39:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > assault on a law enforcement officer. Did the protesters get tears on their nice police uniforms after getting pepper sprayed? THAT’S ASSAULT! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=33)