# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/762 "2020-11-19T19:29:50Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > to see the grounds for the typical ‘this guy needs arresting’ arrest that others don’t. Being an asshole is grounds for “this guy needs arresting”? > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Disorderly Conduct, Interference, Failure to Follow Lawful Orders. Do you have any examples of that? > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If this guy wasn’t ‘I’m looking for excuses to give people with authority shit’ I’d agree. But he isn’t, so I don’t. So if it was just some random guy out there filming some activity that he found to be interesting or noteworthy, then he should not have been arrested. But, because he probably annoyed cops in the past, that justifies it? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Please stop acting like this guy is actually doing a public service. He’s poking at cops trying to provoke a reaction he can then monetize for his own benefit. He was acting within his rights. If that annoys cops, that’s their problem. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The police, who have been asked by the municipality to try and stop a guy from killing himself, are instead trying to manage this asshole’s behavior, because that’s what he chooses to do with his life. They asked him to move back. He did. They continued to harass him after he did what they asked. They chose to “manage this asshole’s behavior”, even though his behavior was not breaking the law. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Insert himself into police responses to see if he can fuck with them enough to get a bad ($$$$) reaction. I wouldn’t say that he is doing it _as_ a public service, but reminding the police that we civilians actually do have rights still is one. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’ll save my concern for those not actively trying to harass the police into a money making opportunity, thankyouverymuch. I don’t have a whole lot of concern over this guy. I _do_ have concern about a police force that will arrest someone who is not breaking any laws because they think that he’s being an asshole. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m happy he got what he wanted. Oh, so we are in agreement then? I am also happy that a police chief who will arrest someone who is not breaking the law gets fired. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/763 "2020-11-19T19:31:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Please stop acting like this guy is actually doing a public service. He’s poking at cops trying to provoke a reaction he can then monetize for his own benefit. Even if we accept that it’s not particularly relevant. Did he violate any law? Did the police overstep their authority? Those appear to be the relevant questions. Even if the cameraman is a complete asshole, the police are expected to follow the law. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/764 "2020-11-19T19:33:19Z")
Sounds like this guy knows how to push cop’s buttons. That isn’t against the law. And cops should be trained to ignore those buttons and if they cannot, be removed from the force. Just like the police chief. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/765 "2020-11-19T19:41:57Z")
IDGAF if he violated the law. I’m a practical person. I want the police to do a good job, to treat the public correctly, with decency, while doing their jobs. Being harassed by trolls who are trying to goad them into a bad reaction payday makes this less possible. This person makes police work harder to do correctly, and that’s the last thing our society needs. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/766 "2020-11-19T19:56:33Z")
Okay, go to his YouTube channel and call him an asshole. Call him a troll. If you happen to see him, say it to his face. Don’t condone police who arrest people who are not breaking the law. I _do_ give a fuck if he violated the law. If you are not breaking the law, then the police should not arrest you. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/767 "2020-11-19T20:05:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > IDGAF if he violated the law. I’m a practical person. I want the police to do a good job, to treat the public correctly, with decency, while doing their jobs. > > Being harassed by trolls who are trying to goad them into a bad reaction payday makes this less possible. This person makes police work harder to do correctly, and that’s the last thing our society needs. Blatantly mischaracterizing the events doesn’t make you right; it just makes you look like more a fuckwit. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/768 "2020-11-19T20:27:01Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m cool with the arrest too, given that this was an active emergency situation and the camera mans presence was legitimately interfering with the police ability to resolve the situation without loss of life. The first two cops said they were happy with him being where he was. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/769 "2020-11-19T21:45:44Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > What did I make up? You need to support the claim that he makes a habit of provking the police. Perhaps you are of the opinion that recording the police is provocation in and of itself, in which case it would seem that discussion is pointless. Give us time points or cued links to his videos to show active interference. Short of that, all else is noise. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/770 "2020-11-20T15:58:08Z")
The real issue with the police having the guy move back from the jumper is analogous to the boy who cried wolf. All the times the cops make up shit about you can’t be here, you can’t film me, etc. this might be the ONE TIME the cops were right in making the guy move but ask why given ALL those other cases of cops making up laws, why should the guy have believed the cops? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/771 "2020-11-20T16:48:54Z")
[Long piece](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-police-immunity-guns/) on the subject of no-knock (warrantless, in this case) encounters, covering the general issue of “qualified immunity” and the conflict between 2A, stand-your-ground/castle-doctrine, 4A and the “difficult job” that is modern police work. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/772 "2020-11-20T17:28:58Z")
Why does qualified immunity trump a constitutional right? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/773 "2020-11-20T18:02:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Being harassed by trolls who are trying to goad them into a bad reaction payday makes this less possible. This person makes police work harder to do correctly, and that’s the last thing our society needs. How was he “Harassing” the cops trying to get the guy off the tower. Let’s take this from the other end. Let’s say the cops told him to back up out of the area and he went the stated 477 feet away and continued to film. The cops ignore him and continued to get the guy off the tower safely. What are you saying the outcome would have been in this scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/774 "2020-11-20T18:54:18Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > What are you saying the outcome would have been in this scenario? The guy maybe jumps? If the guy threatening to jump notices that someone’s filming him, and starts getting agitated about it, do the cops just ignore that, or do they remove the source of the guy’s agitation so he’s less likely to jump? If he moves back 477 feet, but the guy on the tower can still see him, and is still agitated, is it improper for the cops to move him even further back? If the situation was something like that, maybe arresting the guy was still improper, but not necessarily “fire the police chief” improper. And if the jumper didn’t know/care about being filmed, then the cop was just power tripping on the guy, and deserves to be fired. But this story is a whole lot less “obviously wrong” then most of the other incidents in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/775 "2020-11-20T20:00:05Z")
If the guy says that he is agitated by the police, and demand that they all get out of view, do they comply? To be honest, filming the police is to the benefit of anyone who is interacting with them. They could have just shot him and called it a day, were there no witnesses to say differently. Why waste their afternoon on a poor bastard when they could get an early start at the local diner? If I ever have an encounter with the police, I actually would prefer that someone like him is around to document it. > [@Miller](#): > > But this story is a whole lot less “obviously wrong” then most of the other incidents in this thread. this is not actually a thread about “obviously wrong” but actually a thread about “controversial encounters.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/776 "2020-11-20T20:16:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If the guy says that he is agitated by the police, and demand that they all get out of view, do they comply? If there’s no one else there who can help, then no. If there’s a crisis councilor or similar professional already working with the suicidal person? Absolutely, at least to the extent that it doesn’t create a wider danger to bystanders. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If I ever have an encounter with the police, I actually would prefer that someone like him is around to document it. That’s totally rational. But, of course, we’re not talking about a person in a rational state of mind. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/777 "2020-11-20T21:02:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > this is not actually a thread about “obviously wrong” but actually a thread about “controversial encounters.” And here we are, discussing this particular encounter, with some people thinking it’s less obviously wrong than other encounters. As much as I dislike the way policing is done in this country, sometimes they just try to do their jobs as best they can. When that job is “prevent this innocent person’s death” I’m giving them slack, not the guy who’s there to prove some “point” about his rights. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/778 "2020-11-20T21:05:38Z")
C’mon, let’s be fair, getting put in the back of a cop car is almost exactly like getting strangled, shot in the back, sexually assaulted… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/779 "2020-11-20T21:14:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If there’s no one else there who can help, then no. I wonder how many people get to the brink of suicide, and then back down, on their own, with no help from anyone. No cops, no crisis counselors, just considering their mortality and deciding to continue fighting rather than giving up. I know of a couple, personally. The stress of knowing that, once you have decided to live, that now you have to deal with all the fallout of the legal system and mandatory psych evaluations and holds, along with the expense that that incurs, seems would add to the temptation to just go ahead and end it. Personally, having been there, I think I would have had a much harder time backing down with a police presence than I did on my own. > [@Miller](#): > > That’s totally rational. But, of course, we’re not talking about a person in a rational state of mind. Just because someone is not in their best state of mind doesn’t mean that they are irrational and unpredictable. They just don’t have the same priorities as most people who value self preservation over anything else. Were I contemplating my mortality on the edge of a electrical tower, I’d rather have someone making sure that those who are supposed to be protecting me don’t act in a way that is more convenient for them than safe for myself. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/780 "2020-11-20T21:22:48Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > And here we are, discussing this particular encounter, with some people thinking it’s less obviously wrong than other encounters. Not that there haven’t been disagreements on how wrong something was even when the encounter ended up with a dead body. This may be less obviously wrong than George Floyd, but it is still wrong, IMHO. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > As much as I dislike the way policing is done in this country, sometimes they just try to do their jobs as best they can. I don’t think this was the case that they were doing their jobs the best they can. I think this was the case that they chose to instead violate someone’s rights rather than do their jobs. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > When that job is “prevent this innocent person’s death” I’m giving them slack, Not really an innocent, someone facing a very difficult decision. I’m not sure that the cop’s presence contributes anything at all to preventing his death. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > not the guy who’s there to prove some “point” about his rights. I’d say he was there to prove a point about _all_ of our rights. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/781 "2020-11-20T21:26:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I wonder how many people get to the brink of suicide, and then back down, on their own, with no help from anyone. No cops, no crisis counselors, just considering their mortality and deciding to continue fighting rather than giving up. So, if someone is suicidal, we should just… leave them alone and hope it works out for the best? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=40)