# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/62 "2020-07-24T19:07:33Z")
Oh hey, Federal cops tear gassed the mayor of Portland for speaking. But it’s just a ‘few bad apples’, right? And they’d only use chemical weapons on civilians if they’re really needed, right? > **[Portland mayor tear gassed after speaking with protesters on presence of...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/us/portland-protests-mayor/index.html)** > > Mayor Ted Wheeler was tear gassed in downtown Portland early Thursday morning, according to video and posts on Twitter from a New York Times journalist. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/63 "2020-07-24T19:16:35Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Oh hey, Federal cops tear gassed the mayor of Portland for speaking. But it’s just a ‘few bad apples’, right? And they’d only use chemical weapons on civilians if they’re really needed, right? > > [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/us/portland-protests-mayor/index.html) > > ### [Portland mayor tear gassed after speaking with protesters on presence of…](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/us/portland-protests-mayor/index.html) > > Mayor Ted Wheeler was tear gassed in downtown Portland early Thursday morning, according to video and posts on Twitter from a New York Times journalist. And Individual 1 called the mayor “pathetic”. > **[Trump called the mayor of Portland 'pretty pathetic' for attending a protest,...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-calls-portland-mayor-pathetic-attending-protest-2020-7)** > > The president mocked Mayor Ted Wheeler of Portland in an interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity on Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen1)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/64 "2020-07-30T02:35:50Z")
After the Douglas County, Nevada public library announced that they support Black Lives Matter, the County Sheriff told them not to bother calling the police if they have a legal problem. > **[Nevada Sheriff Loses Sh\*t When Library Suggests Perhaps Black Lives Matter](https://www.wonkette.com/nevada-library-suggests-perhaps-black-lives-matter-jerkwater-sheriff-loses-his-sh-t)** > > The unutterable words. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/65 "2020-07-30T03:48:03Z")
[SWAT Mafia]([MSN](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/lawsuit-alleges-lapd-swat-mafia-glamorizes-encourages-use-of-deadly-force/ar-LAPD) BB17lBgi#:~:text=SWAT%20Mafia%20members%20instruct%20other%20SWAT%20officers%20that,to%20deescalate%20conflicts%20are%20ostracized%20and%20called%20%22cowards.%22) > Officers who choose not to use lethal force in encounters with suspects and instead try to deescalate conflicts are ostracized and called “cowards.” They are unlikely to be promoted within the unit. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/66 "2020-07-30T12:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Officers who choose not to use lethal force in encounters with suspects and instead try to deescalate conflicts are ostracized and called “cowards.” They are unlikely to be promoted within the unit. A case in point: [Stephen Mader](https://features.propublica.org/weirton/police-shooting-lethal-force-cop-fired-west-virginia/) (a white man) had served in the Marines in Afghanistan before becoming a police officer in Weirton, West Virginia. He was fired, not for shooting someone, but for _NOT_ shooting someone–a distraught black man holding an (unloaded) gun and repeatedly pleading “Just shoot me”. Unfortunately, the man was killed by Mader’s fellow officers within seconds of their arrival at the scene. (And to be clear, everyone who has any familiarity at all with gun safety knows that there’s no such as an “unloaded gun” unless you have personally unloaded it.) According to that article: > [@](#): > > Mader’s actions at 119 Marie Ave. in May 2016 had instantly become the subject of analysis and gossip among the ranks of the tiny department. The word “coward” was being tossed around. But Mader argues that, no, he didn’t “freeze up”. According to him: > [@](#): > > I was just trying to calm him down. It was really just talking to him like he was a human being — talk to him like a guy who was in a wrong state of mind, like a guy who needed to be calmed down, who needed help. I didn’t want to shoot him. I don’t want to say this, because it’s really corny, but I was kind of sacrificing my well-being for him. I’m not going to shoot this kid for my well-being. I’m going to wait to see more from him. The article notes Mader _was_ prepared to shoot if he felt he absolutely had to, but he was going to do his best NOT to shoot a man who seemed more distraught than threatening. The article also notes that neither Mader nor anyone else in his department had received any training in how to handle a situation like that. So, Mader was fired for trying to go beyond the call of duty and actually protect and serve the public, even though it was at some risk to himself. But they couldn’t give him a commendation or a medal, because he made the other cops look bad, so they called him a “coward” and fired him. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/67 "2020-07-31T05:15:35Z")
And that story tells us exactly why police departments need to be “downfunded” and the money invested instead in various flavors social work. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/68 "2020-08-03T00:05:09Z")
[# Police officers should not be charged with Breonna Taylor’s death, criminal law experts say](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officers-should-not-be-charged-with-breonna-taylors-death-criminal-law-experts-say/ar-BB17ptS0) > Louisville Metro Police policy also says officers may use deadly force when the officer reasonably believes “based on the facts and circumstances that the person against whom the force is used poses an immediate threat of death or serious injury.” Yes, if I break into your apartment in the middle of the night, and you raise your hand to me, I can kill you because I am defending myself. PREDICTION: None of the officers will charged, The one that got fired will either be rehired by this department, or hired by another. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/69 "2020-08-03T01:01:53Z")
Awful, but not surprising. But individual cops making dumb decisions is just a part of the problem. Perhaps a more important part is why was that raid ordered? Couldn’t they have found a less dangerous way to bring in a suspect? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/70 "2020-08-03T02:01:43Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ZWBppiSkr1M/maxresdefault.jpg "Breonna Taylor: Who She Was, How She Died, Why Justice Is Overdue | The Daily Social Distancing Show") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWBppiSkr1M) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/71 "2020-08-03T06:20:59Z")
I live in Louisville. I have a fear that the officers in the Taylor case will not be charged, and it’s going to set this powder keg city off. I’m imagining the Rodney King situation all over again, though perhaps on a smaller scale due to population differences. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/72 "2020-08-03T21:48:54Z")
> **[Aurora police apologize after girls handcuffed in stolen car mixup](https://coloradosun.com/2020/08/03/aurora-police-video-girls-handcuffed/)** > > AURORA — Police in Aurora have apologized after a group of Black girls was detained, and at least two handcuffed during a weekend investigation of a stolen car. Officers later determined that the vehicle they were seeking had the same license plate... Not only did these brave brave officers cuff little girls, but they cant tell the difference between a car and a motorcycle. Or a Colorado plate from a Montana one > Police then determined they had stopped the wrong car. It had Colorado license plates but a motorcycle with the same license plate number from Montana was the vehicle that had been reported as stolen on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/73 "2020-08-03T21:58:24Z")
I’m shocked to find that the occupants of the non-stolen non-motorcycle with non-Montana plates were black! They cuffed the 17-year-old and 12-year-old girl. At least they left the 6-year-old uncuffed, but also didn’t allow anyone to comfort her. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/74 "2020-08-04T02:16:36Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > [# Police officers should not be charged with Breonna Taylor’s death, criminal law experts say](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officers-should-not-be-charged-with-breonna-taylors-death-criminal-law-experts-say/ar-BB17ptS0) > > > Louisville Metro Police policy also says officers may use deadly force when the officer reasonably believes “based on the facts and circumstances that the person against whom the force is used poses an immediate threat of death or serious injury.” > > Yes, if I break into your apartment in the middle of the night, and you raise your hand to me, I can kill you because I am defending myself. > > PREDICTION: None of the officers will charged, The one that got fired will either be rehired by this department, or hired by another. I saw a meme which really did a good job summarizing it. Breonna Taylor’s death was not because the system is broken, but was because the system was working as intended. That is the problem. So of course a criminal law expert is saying the cops shouldn’t be charged, the system is setup so that despite the tragic outcome, they did nothing wrong in the eyes of the system. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/75 "2020-08-04T04:42:07Z")
(from that article) " Detective [Joshua Jaynes](https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/05/20/breonna-taylor-shooting-lmpd-may-require-swat-serve-no-knock-warrants/5220354002/)[said in an application](https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/05/20/breonna-taylor-shooting-lmpd-may-require-swat-serve-no-knock-warrants/5220354002/) for the search warrant that a U.S. postal inspector verified that an alleged drug dealer was receiving packages at Taylor’s home, but the inspector later told WDRB that no suspicious packages were being sent to Taylor. The FBI is investigating the circumstances surrounding the March 13 warrant, and Jaynes has been placed on administrative reassignment." So if the detective lied to get the warrant, is that a felony? And if so, can the detective be charged with felony murder? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/76 "2020-08-04T07:46:01Z")
And yet another case of law enforcement (this time it’s the secret service, no less) mistaking a legally owned car for one listed as stolen, and two women were cuffed and separated from their babies. > **[Two Black moms took their kids to the Mall. Secret Service officers...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/two-black-moms-took-their-kids-to-the-mall-secret-service-confronted-them-with-guns-they-said/2020/08/03/be4dfa8c-d4f1-11ea-9c3b-dfc394c03988_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-low_secret-service-moms-art-1225am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)** > > India Johnson, 26, and Yasmeen Winston, 25, are demanding the agency investigate the encounter and publicly release details of the incident. > Initially, the women said, an officer told them the vehicle had been reported stolen and that the suspects were two Black men. But the women, both African American, said no men were with them and provided proof that Johnson was the owner. She told the Secret Service she had never reported the car stolen. Eventually, the women were released — without an apology or answers to their questions, Winston said. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/77 "2020-08-04T09:44:32Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m shocked to find that the occupants of the non-stolen non-motorcycle with non-Montana plates were black! > > They cuffed the 17-year-old and 12-year-old girl. At least they left the 6-year-old uncuffed, but also didn’t allow anyone to comfort her. I’m sure that the department will move swiftly to ensure that this cannot happen again. Next time they’ll have handcuffs suitable for a 6 year old. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/78 "2020-08-04T10:56:40Z")
I’m utterly shocked that the two women cuffed for no reason were black women! Good on one of the moms for staying clear enough to get the names and badge numbers of the cops, though. I’m sure nothing will come of that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/79 "2020-08-04T11:47:06Z")
We cuff you for your safety so you don’t accidentonpurpously get shot. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/80 "2020-08-04T13:49:24Z")
Good point. If black people make any moves (towards their belt, towards the sky, away from their belt, etc.), it makes police scared that they will pull out an Uzi and start mowing everyone down, so the cops can start shooting out of fear for their safety. Black people are essentially super-beings in the eyes of the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/81 "2020-08-04T18:23:39Z")
A witness of the incident in Washington also said that the Secret Service searched the woman’s car without her approval. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=5)