# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/782 "2020-11-20T21:33:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If the guy threatening to jump notices that someone’s filming him, and starts getting agitated about it, do the cops just ignore that, or do they remove the source of the guy’s agitation so he’s less likely to jump? The guy had already climbed on top of the water tower to do his swan dive. I seriously doubt the guy filming him 477 feet away was “the source of the guy’s agitation.” Even given the cop really trying to defuse the guy and keep him from jumping by removing the guy filming it, he could have handled it a LOT better than “I don’t f\*\*\*\* care about your f\*\*\*\*\* rights!” Right way and wrong way, kids… ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/783 "2020-11-20T21:36:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > maybe arresting the guy was still improper, but not necessarily “fire the police chief” improper. Sure - detaining/arresting the guy filming is not necessarily a firing offense. And, frankly, if a front-line person had done what was filmed, I’d probably be OK with a talking to about how to deal with the public in tense situations, and maybe a note in his/her file. But the chief should have behaved much better, particularly since the guy had apparently moved back to a point that made other LEOs happy. If he has that little self-control, then he needs a new job. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/784 "2020-11-20T21:41:21Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > The guy had already climbed on top of the water tower to do his swan dive. {…} He did? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/785 "2020-11-20T22:37:36Z")
That’s a discussion for a whole different thread, but most of the time, that would probably be for the best, IME. If they’ve reached out for help, that’s a different matter. But contemplating your mortality is not always something that a cop screaming at you will usefully assist. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/786 "2020-11-21T00:37:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s totally rational. But, of course, we’re not talking about a person in a rational state of mind. Right; which is why he shouldn’t be a cop, let alone the chief of police. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/787 "2020-11-21T00:40:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, if someone is suicidal, we should just… leave them alone and hope it works out for the best? If someone is on a ledge in Times Square and says that the people down below are agitating him, should the police try to empty it out? At some point it becomes impractical or unwarranted. While saving the person’s life is extremely important, it’s not carte blanche to override the community’s rights. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/788 "2020-11-21T00:50:47Z")
Probably not, but one asshole with a cellphone is pretty easy to remove from the scene, and I don’t think “But mah rights!” overrides the life and safety of another human being. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/789 "2020-11-21T01:52:50Z")
Thread thoroughly derailed. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/790 "2020-11-21T13:26:36Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Thread thoroughly derailed Give it a day, a cop will shoot a kindergartner for failing to comply with his order to drop the blunt tipped scissors and we’ll be back on course. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/791 "2020-11-21T18:47:24Z")
How about this one from last year. It hits all the notes: kids, dogs, qualified immunity… > **[Cop Who Accidentally Shot 10-Year-Old When Aiming For Family Dog Can’t Be...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2019/07/18/cop-who-accidentally-shot-10-year-old-when-aiming-for-family-dog-cant-be-sued-federal-court-rules/)** > > Created by the Supreme Court, “qualified immunity” lets government officials dodge federal civil-rights lawsuits. > Now detained, Barnett was “visibly unarmed and readily compliant” with the officers. While Barnett was subdued, Coffee County Deputy Sheriff Michael Vickers saw the Corbitt’s dog, a pit bull named Bruce, approach. > No one “appeared to be threatened by [Bruce’s] presence,” the complaint alleged. Yet in roughly 10 seconds, Vickers fired at the dog—twice. Both shots missed Bruce. But his second shot struck Corbitt’s son, piercing the back of his right knee. > When Vickers fired, the boy was lying, face down on the ground, reportedly just 18 inches away from the deputy. And the other children were also very close by, only a few feet removed from Vickers. None of those kids presented “any threat or danger to provoke…Vickers to fire two shots,” as the complaint drily observed. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/792 "2020-11-21T22:36:30Z")
As the Supreme Court once put it, qualified immunity [“provides ample protection to all but **the plainly incompetent** or those who knowingly violate the law.”](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=12074975541007910866&q=%22plainly+incompetent%22&hl=en&as_sdt=6,47) Bolding mine. Cop shot a kid lying by his feet while aiming for a non-aggressive dog. Fuck all the other cops that stood there and watched it happen and did nothing. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/793 "2020-11-21T22:58:02Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Thread thoroughly derailed. Not at all, though. If you look through this thread and its predecessor, there are abundant incidents that demonstrate the folly of dispatching regular uniforms to deal with any fucking old situation. Violence frequently transpires because that is the basic syntax of modern policing. This was a situation where two or three officers might have been appropriate to maintain an orderly peripheral scene, but anyone talking to the prospective jumper should not have been one of them. We have often come to view the police as hostile parties in these encounters. Much of the time, injury and mayhem happens because the police are there, and in many cases, it is hard to argue that them not being there, or standing quietly off to the side eating donuts might well have resulted in a better outcome. So it is far from a “thorough derail” to fundamentally question the appropriateness of police presence (i.e., the possible absence of an encounter with high potential for controversy) in a large fraction of these incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/794 "2020-11-22T05:10:39Z")
Florida: This one happened in 2018 but the video is just now being released. This WaPo article has the entire 2 hour and 5 minute video embedded; a short video piece is linked in this post below the WaPo link. > **[A veteran died in a Florida jail. Two years later, video shows he was tased,...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/13/veteran-police-death/)** > > For approximately 16 minutes, the U.S. Army veteran was left alone in his jail cell > [@](#): > > For nearly two years, the family of U.S. Army veteran Gregory Lloyd Edwards knew what his last moments in a Florida jail were like only from the reporting of a local newspaper. > > In dozens of articles, [Florida Today](https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/11/13/jail-video-gregory-edwards/6262882002/) journalists tried to fill in gaps about what happened to Edwards while he was in Brevard County Sheriff’s Office custody on Dec. 10, 2018. But the agency refused to publicly share the security camera footage of a brawl with deputies and what followed — leaving the family, reporters and the community with mounting questions about how the Black former U.S. Army combat medic died. > > On Friday, Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivey published the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYs_eNyrc8M&feature=youtu.be), but only after settling with the newspaper after it sued for the footage in July amid national reckoning about the use of force by police. Here’s a short video piece (3:40) that shows some of the recently released surveillance footage. THIS IS SOMEWHAT DISTURBING FOOTAGE. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIfnZbu1xGg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIfnZbu1xGg) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/795 "2020-11-24T22:47:41Z")
Remember these ladies? > **[2 detained for speaking Spanish settle border patrol lawsuit](https://apnews.com/article/us-news-montana-lawsuits-border-patrols-havre-aac33988efa73e11c6ffb3fd349a789d)** > > HELENA, Mont. (AP) — Two women who were detained in northern Montana by U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents for speaking Spanish while shopping at a convenience store have reached an undisclosed monetary settlement in their lawsuit against the... ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/796 "2020-11-25T17:45:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Remember these ladies? Yep. It’s a shame that the amount of the settlement isn’t revealed. Also, the government agency explicitly denied liability. If my constitutional rights were ever violated like this by law enforcement, one of my main aims would be to expose the wrongdoing, and I like to think that I would refuse a settlement if it came with any sort of non-disclosure agreement. I’d also say to them that if they were not willing to admit wrongdoing, then there’s no settlement and we’re going to court. I absolutely understand why the women took the money and settled the case, and I’m not criticizing them, but for me in a similar situation, the whole point of the case would be to expose the wrongdoing, and if it’s a non-disclosed settlement with no admission of liability, then that would be almost as bad as a loss. In other news, sometimes cops fire their guns for the right reasons. The video in this story is pretty intense, and the officer did a great job of keeping it together after she was shot. > **[Arizona News](https://www.azfamily.com/news/)** > > Arizona Breaking news, local stories, and On Your Side investigations from the state’s largest television newsroom. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/797 "2020-11-25T19:17:30Z")
[# Police Commission rules fatal shooting of man holding bicycle part was justified](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-commission-rules-fatal-shooting-of-man-holding-bicycle-part-was-justified/ar-BB1bmhUs?li=BBnb7Kz) Wait for this shocker…wait for it… > Langsdale **did not have his body camera activated** when he first arrived at the scene, according to police. Once he activated it, it captured Valencia already on the ground and Langsdale standing behind the open door of his police car, gun drawn. OMG!!! 😲 I did not see that coming! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/798 "2020-11-25T20:01:36Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > OMG!!! 😲 I did not see that coming! Yeah. Until it’s a fireable offense, or maybe even a criminal offense, to have your bodycam off during an encounter, this is going to keep happening. The problem is that the cameras are not running all the time, and cops can then claim that they forgot to turn them on in the heat of the moment. They need a system like car dashcams, where they are recording all the time, and where you can then press a button _ **after** _ an incident to ensure that the material recorded during that incident is retained on the memory card. Then, when an officer calls in an incident, the dispatcher or superior officer or whoever can say, “Please make sure to save this incident in your camera so that we can review it later.” Then, if you fail to do that, you are summarily fired. Good luck getting police unions to agree to that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/799 "2020-11-26T19:51:00Z")
[Former cop kills ex wife](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/model-dies-after-being-mowed-down-by-former-policeman-ex/ar-BB1bo9Zz) He was protecting and serving until May of this year. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/800 "2020-11-29T16:56:21Z")
Lengthy wapo article on police ordering dog attacks on people: > **[These brutal police dog attacks were captured on video. Now some cities are...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/29/these-brutal-police-dog-attacks-were-captured-video-now-some-cities-are-curtailing-k-9-use/)** > > Video of attacking police dogs and the resulting physical injuries are beginning to alter the image of the lifesaving K-9, sometimes known as the “Lassie effect.” > The image of police dogs started to shift several months ago in Salt Lake City. Video showed Jeffery Ryans, a 36-year-old Black man who was about to leave for his job as a train engineer, putting his hands in the air and kneeling on the ground in his backyard as he told officers he was surrendering. A German shepherd was unleashed on him anyway, chomping down on his left leg, causing injuries that required multiple surgeries in an attempt to repair nerve, muscle and tendon damage. > […] > The Salt Lake City officer — known as a K-9 handler — has been charged with felony aggravated assault. More than 100 videos from an additional 18 police dog attacks have been referred by the police department to the local district attorney for possible prosecution. > Key videos from those encounters, reviewed by The Post, show officers repeatedly siccing dogs on individuals after they had surrendered or were under the physical control of officers. Crucial details about those incidents, such as the race of those attacked, have not been made public — aside from the Ryans case — and were not always discernible from the videos. > Outside of the Salt Lake City incidents, The Post reviewed 18 other cases captured on video and documented in police reports and legal records across the country. In a majority of the cases, officers were cleared of any wrongdoing and the departments have announced no changes to their K-9 programs. In a few cases, the people who were bitten have received financial settlements through civil lawsuits. Only two of the people who were bitten were armed. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/801 "2020-11-29T17:34:01Z")
This is why I think that focusing on those who are killed by police, while important, often doesn’t really do justice to the real problems. You don’t have to kill someone to ruin their life. You can degrade, dehumanize, torture and traumatize someone and it’s not nearly as likely to make the news. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=41)