# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/922 "2021-02-12T14:35:42Z")
These Buffalo cops have avoided an indictment, thanks to a grand jury. > **[Assault charges dropped against Buffalo police officers seen pushing protester](https://abcnews.go.com/US/assault-charges-dropped-buffalo-police-officers-pushing-protester/story?id=75840479)** > > Assault charges against two Buffalo, New York, police officers seen in a video shoving a 75-year-old man during a protest last year have been dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/923 "2021-02-14T19:08:05Z")
Not just cops…white cops. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-dont-all-act-the-same-way-white-officers-use-force-more-often-chicago-police-study-finds/ar-BB1dBOyU](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-dont-all-act-the-same-way-white-officers-use-force-more-often-chicago-police-study-finds/ar-BB1dBOyU) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/924 "2021-02-15T20:13:06Z")
_Soooooooo_ many bad apples: > **[LAPD, police union outraged by report of Floyd 'Valentine'](https://apnews.com/article/los-angeles-police-racial-injustice-california-us-news-d1bd9a0806541718bc0451e3df181013)** > > LOS ANGELES (AP) — A report that Los Angeles police officers circulated a photo of George Floyd with the words “you take my breath away” in a Valentine-like format has prompted an internal investigation and drawn blistering condemnation from Floyd’s... ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/925 "2021-02-15T21:02:20Z")
More proof that cops can be far worse than the criminals they are ‘protecting’ us from. Also, anybody catch “[The Trials Of Gabriel Fernandez](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trials_of_Gabriel_Fernandez)” on Netflix? Where L.A. County Sheriff’s deputies were called to residence multiple times and never actually bothered to check on the child. One deputy told the boyfriend that he would come back and ‘scare’ the child into not making false complaints. And when the child died and his _ **horrific** _ abuse that lasted 8 months and was very noticeable to _everyone_ who laid eyes on him, the L.A. Sheriff’s office stonewalled the DA’s investigation to hide that fact that they had received numerous 911 calls and showed up to the apartment as much as 12 hours later on each call and never bothered to look at the child. They took the boyfriend’s and the mom’s word about the condition of the child. Boyfriend was given death sentence for murder with special circumstance of _torture_. Mother pled out and just got life in prison. 4 workers at Child Protective Services were arrested and charged with dereliction and falsifying documents, but charges were eventually dropped. But no one at the Sheriff’s Office was even reprimanded. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/926 "2021-02-22T19:04:27Z")
You can’t even walk home while Black: "PLANO, Texas (AP) — A misdemeanor charge has been dropped against a Black man who was arrested last week for walking home on a street during a snowstorm in Texas. Rodney Reese, 18, was arrested Feb. 16 in Plano and charged with being a pedestrian in the roadway, news outlets reported. Police said officers received a call about a Black man seen stumbling along in the middle of the snowy street wearing a short-sleeved shirt and were sent to perform a wellness check." [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/charge-dropped-against-black-man-walking-on-icy-texas-street/ar-BB1dTMfT?ocid=BingNews](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/charge-dropped-against-black-man-walking-on-icy-texas-street/ar-BB1dTMfT?ocid=BingNews) ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/927 "2021-02-22T22:07:59Z")
Lest we forget, it happens so much that the Supreme Court had to chime in: > **[Kolender v. Lawson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolender_v._Lawson)** > > Kolender v. Lawson, 461 U.S. 352 (1983), is a United States Supreme Court case concerning the constitutionality of vague laws that allow police to demand that "loiterers" and "wanderers" provide "credible and reliable" identification. > Edward Lawson was a law-abiding black man with suitable knowledge of the U.S. Constitution. Lawson was frequently subjected to police questioning and harassment in San Diego County, California, where he lived when as a pedestrian he walked in so-called "white nei... > Edward Lawson was a law-abiding black man with suitable knowledge of the U.S. Constitution. Lawson was frequently subjected to police questioning and harassment in San Diego County, California, where he lived when as a pedestrian he walked in so-called “white neighborhoods.” He was detained or arrested approximately 15 times by the San Diego Police within 18 months, was prosecuted twice, and was convicted once (the second charge was dismissed). > Conclusion: > Using the construction of the California appellate court in Solomon, the Court held that the law was unconstitutionally vague because it gave excessive discretion to the police (in the absence of probable cause to arrest) whether to stop and interrogate a suspect or leave him alone.[3] The Court hinted that the California statute compromised the constitutional right to freedom of movement Because of this, police are allowed to ask your name but you are under no obligation to provide proof, as in ID, unless you’re under arrest. And not providing ID is not pc for arrest. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/928 "2021-02-23T04:01:46Z")
What about Hiibel v. Sixth? > **[Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that a statute requiring suspects to disclose their names during a valid Terry stop does not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first requires reasonable suspicion of criminal involvement, and does not violate the Fifth Amendment if there is no allegation that their names could have caused an incrimination.... It seems to say that you have to provide a name on a Terry stop, which is less than an arrest. Not saying I agree with it, or even that I understand it correctly, just that’s what I heard from an internet lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/929 "2021-02-23T04:15:51Z")
From that article… > if the statute first requires reasonable suspicion of criminal involvement, and does not violate the Fifth Amendment if there is no allegation that their names could have caused an incrimination. They can’t just ask for ID. In a Terry stop there has to be reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Walking in a neighborhood is not reasonable suspicion. And I would argue that _Hiibel_ does not require proof just that the suspect is required to answer “truthfully” when asked their name. Btw, the police can and will ask for ID, you are just not obligated to provide it unless under arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/930 "2021-02-23T08:04:39Z")
Correct: AFAIK in Nevada, you must tell the police who you are. You aren’t under any obligation to provide your full legal name or any ID but you must answer truthfully. If they find out later that you lied, you could be charged for it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/931 "2021-02-23T18:31:45Z")
What if you just kept your mouth shut? They can ask you questions until their faces match the color of their uniforms, but if you say nothing, what can they do? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/932 "2021-02-23T18:37:42Z")
Abuse their authority and get away with it? ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/933 "2021-02-23T19:15:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What if you just kept your mouth shut? In the US, if you are being arrested you have to affirmatively say something along the lines of “I will not answer questions” or “I invoke my right to remain silent” if you want to not answer questions. Otherwise you can be charged with obstruction of justice or something. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/934 "2021-02-23T19:16:47Z")
In Nevada, you must identify yourself to law enforcement during a valid Terry stop. That’s what the Hiibel case was all about, was our so-called “stop and identify” law: > **[Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that a statute requiring suspects to disclose their names during a valid Terry stop does not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first requires reasonable suspicion of criminal involvement, and does not violate the Fifth Amendment if there is no allegation that their names could have caused an incrimination.... ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/935 "2021-02-24T03:43:46Z")
Oh no; what a surprise: > **[No charges against officers involved in Daniel Prude's death](https://apnews.com/article/no-charges-officers-daniel-prude-7886a45e038bb3dbf782932807bafd74)** > > Police officers who put a hood over the head of a mentally distraught Black man, then pressed his body against the pavement until he stopped breathing will not face criminal charges after a grand jury declined to indict them, New York's attorney... ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/936 "2021-02-24T07:17:41Z")
San Francisco: > **[Family: Navy vet died after police knelt on his neck](https://apnews.com/article/veterans-san-francisco-police-california-20ff94c370dcd7cee46b80b9b0d3edd1)** > > SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A Navy veteran who was going through an episode of paranoia died after a Northern California police officer knelt on his neck for several minutes, his family said Tuesday... ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/937 "2021-02-25T03:13:08Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > In the US, if you are being arrested you have to affirmatively say something along the lines of “I will not answer questions” or “I invoke my right to remain silent” if you want to not answer questions. Otherwise you can be charged with obstruction of justice or something. Or something. If you don’t explicitly invoke your right to silence, police can continue to question you, and if you then (even after a matter of hours) decide to answer, they can use your statement against you in court. Also, under some circumstances, a prosecutor can use mere silence to suggest that you’ve been dishonest, but they can’t do that if you explicitly invoke your right to silence, or your right against self-incrimination. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/938 "2021-02-25T08:31:25Z")
I can do pretty good gibberish. I wonder how the police would cope with that. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/939 "2021-02-25T13:19:07Z")
> I can do pretty good gibberish. I wonder how the police would cope with that./\< Use it against you. Duh. (they’ve been known to make shit up and lie) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/940 "2021-02-26T05:00:03Z")
Wow; they couldn’t foresee that he might not be honest with them? That he might do something terrible? Seriously? This was not foreseeable? > **[Olympics gymnastics coach kills himself after being charged](https://apnews.com/article/john-geddert-suicide-after-charges-147800b76ba2f86f1314e85326dfd197)** > > LANSING, Mich. (AP) — A former U.S. Olympics gymnastics coach with ties to disgraced sports doctor Larry Nassar killed himself Thursday, hours after being charged with turning his Michigan gym into a hub of human trafficking by coercing girls to... A guy charged with human trafficking and sexual assault (on underage girls, no less) was somehow deemed “trustworthy and not a threat”? WTF? 😒 What if he had been black? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/941 "2021-02-26T06:54:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What if he had been black? He would never have got the job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=48)