# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1182 "2021-04-14T16:37:34Z")
Who here honestly believes a young black person can have a reasonable expectation of fairness and humane treatment from the justice system in the US, whether in routine encounters with law enforcement or trials and corrections? @QuickSilver, do you believe this? If not, how can you fault a young black person for feeling afraid for their life when dealing with law enforcement? This is what I mean by a broken system. This broken system forces black people to, very reasonably, fear for their lives in what should be ordinary encounters with authorities. When people reasonably fear for their lives, they might behave like humans do when faced with mortal terror. And then you’re blaming them for that behavior? If so, fuck you and the horse you rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1183 "2021-04-14T16:40:09Z")
We shouldn’t expect young people to display superhuman feats of discipline and clear-headedness in order to not be killed. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1184 "2021-04-14T16:41:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’m with you up to the last 4 words there. If the arrest is over non-violent infractions, then I don’t see why violence is justified to enforce it. > > If that means that a non-violent offender occasionally gets away, then that’s a price that I’m willing to pay. The warrant for arrest was linked to a complaint against him for attempted armed robbery and illegal possession of a weapon. Do you consider this to be sufficient grounds for arrest? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Agreed. But this is not the case. I did not see any attempts at de-escalation, I saw increasing hostility on the part of the cop. Maybe I didn’t see what you saw. I saw a video in which he was standing against the car with his hands behind him, about to be cuffed, when he suddenly sprinted for his car in an attempt to escape. That was when everything went to shit. Now, if you think the cop should have let him go, then I suppose that’s one possible outcome. I don’t imagine for a second he’d have bothered to stick around to have the cop convince him to stay. As linked above by @mhedo, there was outstanding warrant for him. To my understanding, the cops have no other choice but to arrest someone who has an outstanding warrant. If you want to make the argument that laws should be changed to remove that responsibility, then go ahead and make it. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > She is 100% responsible for his death, and I’d say 90% responsible for the situation that lead up to it. She is 100% responsible for his death. He is 100% responsible for the escalation. Did he deserve to die? Absolutely not. Should she be held responsible for wrongful death? Absolutely. But can we reasonably say that she instigated this prior to the actions he took? I don’t believe so. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1185 "2021-04-14T16:41:26Z")
Maybe the answer is _more_ violence to ensure compliance. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1186 "2021-04-14T16:45:34Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > To my understanding, the cops have no other choice but to arrest someone who has an outstanding warrant. Cops routinely engage in fishing expeditions, with the purpose of stumbling on people with warrants, or opportunities to search belongings for illegal items. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1187 "2021-04-14T16:48:24Z")
> **[Could a veteran police officer really have mistaken a pistol for a Taser?](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/how-veteran-officer-could-have-mistaken-glock-taser-fatal-shooting-n1263976)** > > “They feel differently in your hands,” one expert said of the two weapons. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1188 "2021-04-14T16:49:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Maybe the answer is _more_ violence to ensure compliance. That is not something I ever said. In fact, I said the opposite. And you know that because you acknowledged me saying so up-thread. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1189 "2021-04-14T16:59:18Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Cops routinely engage in fishing expeditions, with the purpose of stumbling on people with warrants, or opportunities to search belongings for illegal items. They do and that is why I continue to argue that policing practices and training need to be fundamentally changed to avoid this kind of harassment. But we are very proud to announce to everyone who’ll hear that we live in a nation of laws. One of the laws is that people with outstanding warrants have to be brought to justice, sometimes by arrest. So my question is this… If this young man was not stopped and discovered to have an outstanding warrant which he ignored previously, but instead was paid a visit in his residence and told he was being placed under arrest, would that also be considered harassment? What if he ran or otherwise resisted arrest? Under what circumstance would it be reasonable to enforce the law through use of reasonable and proportional force in such a situation? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1190 "2021-04-14T17:03:48Z")
And it was not something I attributed to you. It was a sarcastic reply to iiandyiiii. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1191 "2021-04-14T17:15:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If not, how can you fault a young black person for feeling afraid for their life when dealing with law enforcement? He had reason to fear the police and wish to escape for reasons other than because he is black. To reduce this interaction to the color of his skin alone is, to use your word, not plausible. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1192 "2021-04-14T17:17:24Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But we are very proud to announce to everyone who’ll hear that we live in a nation of laws. Who is “we” here? I don’t think that this is the case at all. We live in a nation where some are protected by the law, and others are bound by the law. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > One of the laws is that people with outstanding warrants have to be brought to justice, sometimes by arrest. Yes, that is one of the ways that parts of our population are bound by the law. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > If this young man was not stopped and discovered to have an outstanding warrant which he ignored previously, but instead was paid a visit in his residence and told he was being placed under arrest, would that also be considered harassment? What if he ran or otherwise resisted arrest? See, you jump to him having to be arrested. You jump to the use of force and violence in order to “uphold” the law. He _must_ comply, otherwise… well, otherwise what? Why does he need to be arrested? What good is done to society by using force to make him comply? What if you pull him over, or even show up at his house, say, “You missed your court date, we need to schedule a new one. When is a convenient time for you? Will you need transportation or childcare in order to attend?” You are looking for a single simple answer to a complex question, so you have to know that there isn’t one that isn’t wrong. That’s why we have a justice system in the first place, because cases should be considered on their individual basis, not a one size fits all answer. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > What if he ran or otherwise resisted arrest? So? What if he does? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Under what circumstance would it be reasonable to enforce the law through use of reasonable and proportional force in such a situation? I consider the measure of a civilization as to how many steps it is willing to take before it uses force or violence to attain the compliance that is necessary for maintaining peace and productivity for its citizens. I give ours a pretty low grade. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1193 "2021-04-14T17:30:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Who is “we” here? I don’t think that this is the case at all. We live in a nation where some are protected by the law, and others are bound by the law. I submit “we” (members of society) are both to some degree. I am bound by the law not to drive my car 150mph. You are bound by law not to shoplift. If we break the laws and are caught doing so, we are going to be bound by additional penalties (bounds). Is that unfair? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > See, you jump to him having to be arrested. You jump to the use of force and violence in order to “uphold” the law. He _must_ comply, otherwise… well, otherwise what? If he had a warrant for failure to pay parking ticket fines, I would say arrest was not in any way justified. Perhaps a license suspension would be the next step. If he was caught driving with a suspended license, additional fines and impounding the car until fines were paid or a court date was honored and judgement rendered. An arrest is often not warranted. But we know that he had an outstanding warrant for a much more serious crime. So I am in fact not looking for or offering a simple, one size fits all, answer. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1194 "2021-04-14T17:30:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If this young man was not stopped and discovered to have an outstanding warrant which he ignored previously, but instead was paid a visit in his residence and told he was being placed under arrest, would that also be considered harassment? It depends how his name was picked to be next in line for a visit, doesn’t it? Or, do you think these decisions can’t be made with racial bias? Right now, the discretion to stop, search and run names lies with the individual cop, their whim of who to stop, who ‘looks suspicious’ who needs to be frisked for ‘safety’ reasons. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1195 "2021-04-14T17:48:06Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > for attempted armed robbery and illegal possession of a weapon. I’m not seeing where you got this from. Could you please cite it? All I see is that he had a pistol without a permit, which is a misdemeanor. Where did the armed robbery come from? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > But we know that he had an outstanding warrant for a much more serious crime. Do we? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1196 "2021-04-14T17:52:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > To reduce this interaction to the color of his skin alone is, to use your word, not plausible. And to deny it as a factor is not reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1197 "2021-04-14T17:52:19Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’m not seeing where you got this from. Could you please cite it? I found two sources: > **[Daunte Wright was facing attempted robbery case when killed by cop](https://nypost.com/2021/04/13/daunte-wright-was-facing-attempted-robbery-case-when-killed-by-cop/)** > > Daunte Wright had an open warrant related to an armed robbery case against him when he was shot dead Sunday by a cop who claimed she thought she was firing her Taser, court records show. Wright, 20… > **[Daunte Wright accused of choking and robbing woman at gunpoint, had arrest...](https://www.foxnews.com/us/daunte-wright-had-outstanding-warrant-for-attempted-aggravated-robbery-when-he-was-killed)** > > Daunte Wright, the 20-year-old Black man shot by a White police officer in a Minneapolis suburb Sunday afternoon, had an open warrant for his arrest related to an aggravated armed robbery attempt when he was killed, according to court records. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1198 "2021-04-14T17:52:25Z")
Thank you for this utterly fucking fabulous example of white privilege. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1199 "2021-04-14T17:54:10Z")
“Hmm, I wonder if that young black man had a legitimate reason to fear interacting with police officers.” …said a million ignorant, privileged white people who are comfortable with the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1200 "2021-04-14T17:59:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I found two sources: Does this information exonerate that officer in any way, shape or form? Is it o.k. to be dangerously reckless with deadly weapons if the person killed “deserves” it in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1201 "2021-04-14T17:59:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Thank you for this utterly fucking fabulous example of white privilege. As a fabulously privileged white person I am very willing to admit that the temptation to do a rabbit from the cops to escape arrest would absolutely cross my mind under similar circumstance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=61)