# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1222 "2021-04-14T20:22:46Z")
Oh no, that guy had it coming. After he was signaled to pull over he drove for a minute to a well-lit area instead of pulling over immediately. That’s clearly escalating the situation and threatening to the police officers. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1223 "2021-04-14T20:24:15Z")
He also recklessly wasn’t able to follow the conflicting orders to keep his hands raised and out of the car while also exiting the car. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1224 "2021-04-14T20:30:00Z")
Absolutely! See, now if I’d been in that guy’s situation, I’d have just had a nice polite conversation with the police officer and been on my way without incident. Because I’d have been polite and complied with everything the officer requested, and I’d have been white while doing so. See? Easy-peasy! All these cases of officer-involved violence are clearly the fault of the threatening civilian participants in the interactions. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1225 "2021-04-14T20:32:00Z")
I think we’re tap-dancing around the issue, here. If Caron Nazario had said, “I’m carrying no end of weapons, and am on my way to the US Capitol to restore the power and position of The Greatest U.S. President In History, Donald J. Trump,” he would have gotten a police escort that night. Rookie mistake, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1226 "2021-04-14T20:33:31Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > …I’d have been white while doing so. That was really his big mistake. If he didn’t want to get maced in the face, he should have been born white. More seriously, he really did try and follow all the lessons from all the previous interactions – he got to a well-lit area, kept his hands visible. He didn’t lower his hands to undo his seatbelt because then he would be dead (“we thought he was reaching for a gun!”). Instead, he asked the officer to undo his seatbelt. He had zero idea why he was being pulled over, stayed polite, and still got maced and beaten. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1227 "2021-04-14T23:44:35Z")
I think some officers do legitimately sign up trying to protect and serve, but there are others who want status and power and see joining the force as a way to reinforce their macho self-image. Even so, I don’t think that’s what turns them into ‘bad apples’; rather, it’s the result of a thousand paper cuts. Turning on lights just to go through a red light. Going 20 miles over the speed limit. Throwing a rabbit punch to the head when the body camera’s off. Threatening someone’s civil rights merely for talking back. All of that and more, but most of all…others who know what happens and say and do absolutely nothing to confront them. I am going to wager that George Floyd was not the person that Derek Chauvin choked out; he’s just the first one he choked to death. Look at the other officers standing by and you get it: this is actually…normal behavior. It’s one reason that I am less and less inclined to start posts or say things like “_Look, I like and respect cops, and I know they have a tough job, but…_” Not because I hate cops but I hate what is clearly - what has actually always been - a cultural problem. In a way, every single police officer in the Minneapolis Police Department killed George Floyd. By their years of inaction. This outcome was inevitable, just as surely as there will inevitably be more and more outrages as a result of police brutality. Since the culture can’t change itself; citizens have to be the ones to change the culture. They have to film. They have to report. They have to protest. They have to demand accountability. And most importantly, they have to convict. ---
**Author:** ![DeathPool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e95f7d/32.png) [@DeathPool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeathPool)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1228 "2021-04-14T23:49:52Z")
Was it? No he was a violent dummy, too dumb and violent to live. If it wasn’t this incident it would have been another. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1229 "2021-04-14T23:50:14Z")
Although more details will follow, I think it’s an appropriate charge. It does seem that this can be categorized as a spectacular fuck up, and she seemed genuinely distressed in that moment. Still, fuckups that result in death should have consequences beyond an orchestrated resignation. How many ordinary citizens would get away with “_I thought my 9mm was a stun gun. Really sorry_”? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1230 "2021-04-15T00:00:08Z")
This is from last year, but the video has just gone viral. A white cop pulled a black guy over for driving 65 in a 70 zone, and he said he was just pulling him over to check that he was doing okay. > **[Run-in with Sampson deputy leaves driver feeling unsafe](https://www.wral.com/run-in-with-sampson-deputy-leaves-driver-feeling-unsafe/18953226/)** > > A traffic stop in Sampson County Thursday bothered the driver so much he shared video of the encounter on Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1231 "2021-04-15T00:02:53Z")
And fuck THESE guys. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-cop-who-shared-explicit-pics-of-slain-student-seeks-millions-in-compensation/ar-BB1fEpFZ?li=BBnb7Kz](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-cop-who-shared-explicit-pics-of-slain-student-seeks-millions-in-compensation/ar-BB1fEpFZ?li=BBnb7Kz) ---
**Author:** ![DeathPool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e95f7d/32.png) [@DeathPool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeathPool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1232 "2021-04-15T00:06:18Z")
Weird how this thread was ostensibly just about interactions between law enforcement and non-law enforcement but was co-opted to be about oh boohoo poor black people he was a good boy. Funny how that works. Meanwhile cops will kill pretty much anybody that doesn’t comply. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1233 "2021-04-15T00:36:52Z")
Ah, so you’re an asshole then. Thanks for clearing that up. ---
**Author:** ![DeathPool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e95f7d/32.png) [@DeathPool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeathPool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1234 "2021-04-15T00:43:31Z")
Nah I just live in reality! ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1235 "2021-04-15T03:24:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Look, racism is not just a justice system problem, or just an American society problem. It’s a human species problem. Would you like to fix things that can be fixed, one step at a time, with some reasonable expectation of measurable success, or would you like to pull the life support on the entire human race and hope the next dominant species has better luck? …fuck off with this “human race” bullshit. This is America’s problem to fix. The rest of the world have their own problems to fix, but the specific problems that this thread is almost exclusively about are America’s issues. America has nearly 18,000 police agencies. City Police. State and Highway Police. County Sheriff’s. The Feds. Some officials are elected. Some police departments, like the one we are talking about at the moment, have **zero** police actually living in the community they police every day. ZERO. For decades black people have been trying to fix things that can be fixed, one step at a time, over and over again. And yet this is where we are at. So just fuck off with your bullshit. The American system of policing is completely broken. Because you literally **don’t have a system.** You’ve got tens-of-thousands of different agencies just doing their own thing. Last year we watched peaceful demonstrations broken up by rioting police. We saw journalists deliberately targeted by pepperballs, teargas and riot shields. Many police unions are nothing more than protection rackets. And there have been **zero** consequences for any of it. This isn’t about Daunte Wright. He is just the latest victim of an industrial system that sees black bodies treated as disposable garbage. The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The next highest is El Salvador, then Turkmenistan, then Thailand, then Palau. Just think about that for a minute. Just think about how fundamentally broken America is when it locks more people away per capita than anywhere else in the world. Your country is broken. Its fucked. And you don’t even know it. So its not a “human race thing.” Its a white America thing. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1237 "2021-04-15T03:46:44Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/FhhBocZnkoQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Police in America - Where Are The Good Apples? | The Daily Social Distancing Show") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhhBocZnkoQ) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1239 "2021-04-15T03:54:38Z")
> [@DolomiteD](#): > > Nah it’s nothing to do with that. All they need to do is stop resisting and they’ll stop dying. …who’s sock are you? Anyone wanna have a guess? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1240 "2021-04-15T11:37:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Some police departments, like the one we are talking about at the moment, have **zero** police actually living in the community they police every day. ZERO. In Kansas City, MO there is a push on to remove the residency requirement by the state legislature. So in addition to not being able to run our own police department (dating back to the “Boss Tom” Pendergast days) but now the plan is to make them even less connected to the city. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1241 "2021-04-15T12:32:57Z")
Look who managed to chew through his restraints again to contribute yet another spittle flecked, rage filled harangue. Tell me, is it as exhausting to write your disquisitions as it is to read them? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1242 "2021-04-15T12:39:37Z")
…you can choose to ignore what I said. But the reality is that the America you think exists and the America that actually exists are two different things. You are living in a fantasy world. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1243 "2021-04-15T12:41:55Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The American system of policing is completely broken. Seconded. I am an American who has lived in Europe for several years. The police here, in the country where I live _and_ in the neighboring states, are much, much, _much_ better than they are in the U.S. The contrast is stark. They are public servants. Their role is public service. They aren’t perfect. They have problems. But being a self-protective gang of paranoid, trigger-happy jarheads is not one of those problems. It’s kind of amazing the clarity that comes when you extract yourself from a situation and are able to look at it from the outside. American policing really is completely broken, and needs to be torn down and rebuilt literally from the ground up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=63)