# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1284 "2021-04-15T17:39:51Z")
Who says they’re all racially motivated? They’re all a piece of this broken system, but personal racial animus is only a part of this broken system. Militarized training and culture is another part. Us vs them (cops seeing the public as an enemy) is another. Escalation/emphasis on authority instead of deescalation and emphasis on community relations is another. The blue wall is another (and maybe the biggest piece). There are many, many more. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1285 "2021-04-15T18:18:15Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > How do we reconcile this with the fact that 81% of Black Americans want the same or more policing in their communities? Because they want the police to be there to protect their neighborhood but at the same time they don’t trust them when they are there. Look at the other parts of the survey: [Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence (gallup.com)](https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/black-americans-police-retain-local-presence.aspx) > [@](#): > > Fewer than one in five Black Americans feel very confident that the police in their area would treat them with courtesy and respect. While similar to the 24% of Asian Americans saying the same, it is markedly lower than the 40% of Hispanic Americans and the 56% of White Americans who feel this way. The abusive spouse comparison may be very apt here. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1286 "2021-04-15T18:22:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They’re all a piece of this broken system, but personal racial animus is only a part of this broken system. Militarized training and culture is another part. Us vs them (cops seeing the public as an enemy) is another. Escalation/emphasis on authority instead of deescalation and emphasis on community relations is another. The blue wall is another (and maybe the biggest piece). There are many, many more. This. From outside the US it’s shocking to see people stuck in this groove and unable to see what is happening. From the other side of the pond it appears you are in a low-grade civil war, with an apartheid system in place and a non-democratic take over in the wings. And we used to look up to you. It’s really, really sad. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1287 "2021-04-15T18:26:57Z")
Newsweek is untrustworthy. It’s owned by a Korean cult. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1288 "2021-04-15T18:29:30Z")
Just throwing this out: George Floyd’s girlfriend was one of Daunte Wright’s high school teachers. The black Army lieutenant who was recently harassed by the cops is a family friend of the Eric Garner family. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1289 "2021-04-15T18:31:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The conclusion that I draw is that perhaps we ought not to rush to lump all negative police interactions in black communities as being racially motivated. One problem is, we don’t know when they are and aren’t. This officer made a tragic error during a routine stop. We don’t know if a person with white skin gets stopped in the first place. We don’t know if the pre-arrest interaction would play out differently on the police side if the person had white skin. We don’t know if she would make the same heat of the moment mistake when faced with a white man instead of a black man. In my town people complained about the police, for _parking_ somewhere. I hear this and think WTF is wrong with you people? Then they say, the police parked there because there was a group of black teens hanging out, getting ice cream. I would never think for a moment that a cop parked on the block near me because he was monitoring me, to see if I do something he can bust me on. My black neighbors do. How can I tell them they’re wrong, and that the police weren’t monitoring their kids for eating ice cream while black? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1290 "2021-04-15T19:18:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who says they’re all racially motivated? FFS, you did: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s very possible he was afraid that these cops were the type who were entirely negligent, if not worse, in their treatment of the bodies and lives of black men. And, in his terror, he felt the urgent need to separate himself from these dangerous, negligent enemies. > > If so, it turns out he was correct. These were very dangerous, negligent people. No wonder he might have felt mortal terror and an urgency to flee. It was your first response in context of this specific incident. And then you proceeded to roll with it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1291 "2021-04-15T19:19:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Newsweek is untrustworthy. It’s owned by a Korean cult. Really?.. I’ll keep that in mind. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1292 "2021-04-15T19:35:29Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > One problem is, we don’t know when they are and aren’t. This officer made a tragic error during a routine stop. We don’t know if a person with white skin gets stopped in the first place. We don’t know if the pre-arrest interaction would play out differently on the police side if the person had white skin. We don’t know if she would make the same heat of the moment mistake when faced with a white man instead of a black man. No we don’t. And we have good reason to ask those questions. But notice how little benefit of the doubt is given to cops while bending over backwards for a suspect with an arrest warrant: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > – even supposed criminals (and we don’t know if Wright even did anything wrong in terms of what lead to the warrant) While it’s true that a warrant does not a convicted criminal make, see how recklessly a charge is dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1293 "2021-04-15T19:38:30Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Newsweek is untrustworthy. It’s owned by a Korean cult As far as I know, it is an independent magazine run by Dev Pragad, Where are the ties to a Korean cult? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1294 "2021-04-15T19:42:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > > > Newsweek is untrustworthy. It’s owned by a Korean cult. > > Really?.. I’ll keep that in mind. From [**Wikipedia**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek#2018_investigation_and_firings): > 2018 investigation and firings[[edit](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Newsweek&action=edit§ion=14)] > The [Manhattan District Attorney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_District_Attorney)’s office raided Newsweek’s headquarters in [Lower Manhattan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Manhattan) on January 18, 2018, and seized 18 computer servers as part of an investigation related to the company’s finances.[[64]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek#cite_note-:3-64) IBT, which owned Newsweek, had been under scrutiny for its ties to [David Jang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jang),[[64]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek#cite_note-:3-64) a South Korean pastor and the leader of a Christian sect called “the Community”.[[65]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek#cite_note-65) And/but … [**LINK**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek#Spin-off_to_IBT_Media,_return_to_print_and_profitability_(2013%E2%80%932018)) > In September 2018, after completing the strategic structural changes initially announced in March of the same year, IBT Media spun off _Newsweek_ , making it an independent publication for the first time in almost 60 years Make of all of this what you will … ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1295 "2021-04-15T19:46:05Z")
Racial animus or motivation is not necessary to mistreat black people. Is this really a new concept to you? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1296 "2021-04-15T19:47:19Z")
Imagine that more benefit of the doubt is given to the powerless party that ended up dead vice the institution enforcer who killed him! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1297 "2021-04-15T19:55:23Z")
Imagine whatever you like. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1298 "2021-04-15T20:09:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The only way to fix what’s broken is a step at a time because that is how you solve big complex problems - by breaking them up into smaller, more manageable problems. In a country as large and complex as the US, that is done through iterative changes, not by histrionic shouting about the blindingly fucking obvious. I agree. Complex problems have complex solutions. Poverty and Inequality Racism The idiotic ‘War on Drugs’ [The War on Immigrants](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_P9PR5ckFk) [Socialization of the Police](https://opentextbc.ca/ethicsinlawenforcement/chapter/8-2-socialization-of-police/) [Militarization of police](https://www.google.com/search?q=militarization+of+police&rlz=1C1CHBD_en&oq=militarization&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i131i433j0l8.9300j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active) And the mistaken belief that ‘street crime’ is more of a danger to society than white collar crime. As much as I rage about bad cops, I actually think we are on the right track. We are not seeing an upswing in excessive force against minorities. This is business as usual. We have just been shining a light on it and people are pissed, as they should be. This is where change starts. It is slow and painful, but it is happening. It will be faster if fewer people stop denying the problems exist. Or just be honest about their racism. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1299 "2021-04-15T20:25:39Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > As much as I rage about bad cops, I actually think we are on the right track. Right. And we are seeing more and more bad cops face real consequences. It’s a good start and more needs to be done as far as removing the special protections they’ve enjoyed up until now. Plus all the other things you listed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1300 "2021-04-15T21:27:39Z")
The way to continue this progress is to keep the pressure on, not to back up and make excuses and assign blame to those with reason to feel mortal terror. The warrant is entirely irrelevant to the killing of Wright. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1301 "2021-04-15T21:39:12Z")
Remember this case from Columbus, Ohio? > **[Officer whose pat-down missed gun cautioned against rushing](https://apnews.com/article/ohio-columbus-shootings-police-19d00ae49230f5e0137899b69bbdce97)** > > COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio officer who missed a gun during a pat-down of Miles Jackson — later leading to Jackson ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1302 "2021-04-15T21:51:10Z")
Videos have been released concerning the shooting of 13 yo Adam Toledo by the police in Chicago. An article: > On a frame-by-frame viewing, a pistol-shaped object appears to be visible in Toledo’s right hand behind his back as he pauses near the opening in the fence and turns his head toward the officer. On the grainy and shaky video, his hands appear to be empty at the moment the officer shoots him. > > Later in the video, an officer can be seen shining a flashlight onto a pistol behind the fence where Toledo had been standing. > > In a view from a camera across a nearby parking lot, aimed at the alley from behind that fence, the teen can be seen running down the alley from a distance. As he can be seen stopping at the gap where he was eventually shot, his right arm can be seen moving behind the fence, making an underhanded throwing motion toward the area where the gun is later recovered, just before he turns back toward the officer and slumps to the ground. > **[In several fateful seconds, video appears to show 13-year-old Adam Toledo...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-police-adam-toledo-shooting-video-released-20210415-xn63playebasld36oulootdq6i-story.html)** > > Video of Adam Toledo’s fatal shooting by a Chicago police officer was released to the public Thursday, more than two weeks after the 13-year-old was killed following a foot chase in a Little Village alley. Here is the complete set of material released: > **[2021-0001112 - Civilian Office of Police Accountability](https://www.chicagocopa.org/case/2021-0001112/)** > > Subject: Adam Toledo This post includes all relevant video, audio and Chicago Police Department records in COPA’s possession that are required to be released related to use of force in … ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1303 "2021-04-15T22:16:23Z")
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/daunte-wright-lawyer-shares-video-of-white-man-beating-cop-with-not-one-taser-or-gun-in-sight/ar-BB1fH9RQ?li=BBnbfcL](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/daunte-wright-lawyer-shares-video-of-white-man-beating-cop-with-not-one-taser-or-gun-in-sight/ar-BB1fH9RQ?li=BBnbfcL) I have not seen the video. But a white man resisting arrest, stealing a cop baton and beating a cop with it, then stealing their cop car…and neither cop pulls a weapon?? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=66)