# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1364 "2021-04-16T19:28:20Z")
The head of the Chicago police union says the cop that killed 13 year old Adam Toledo was not only justified, but heroic. > **[Chicago police union president says officer that shot 13-year-old Adam Toledo...](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-chicago-police-union-president-adam-toledo-defends-officer-20210416-lj2qxd3425at7icxznl7bouxbi-story.html)** > > The president of the Chicago police union has defended the officer involved in the fatal shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, calling his actions “heroic” and “100% justified.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1365 "2021-04-16T19:46:46Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Even if every interaction is legitimate, there’s no reason to believe police don’t use their _discretion_ to eschew legitimate reasons to interact with white people in favor of interacting “legitimately” with black people. That’s the other side of it. One often hears about Black people being pulled over for offenses like “broken license plate light” or “driving suspiciously under the speed limit.” As a white guy, I suspect I’d never be pulled over for such things. I can safely drive around with a bad license plate light, and indeed reasonably far above the speed limit, an d not be pulled over. If a cop is looking for a reason to pull a Black person over, he can always find it. 2 over the limit, boom. Maaaaaaybe you rolled a stop sign, boom. Air freshener hanging from mirror, boom. > [@BigT](#): > > This is important. We don’t know that black people factually commit more crimes, and have data to back up that black people are more likely to be punished and punished more severely than white people who commit the same crime. And, of course, the system can target and punish the types of crimes committed by Black (and poor) people more than those likely to be committed by white people. Someone wanna remind me again how many folks went to prison for fraud due to the 2008 fiscal disaster? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1366 "2021-04-16T20:03:13Z")
I cannot imagine getting pulled over for driving 65 mph in a 70 mph zone. What a bizarre incident that was. As others have noted, drug use is about the same among blacks and whites, but blacks are much more likely to get stopped, searched, have drugs found, be prosecuted, etc. So, just because blacks have proportionately more interactions with police doesn’t mean they are committing crimes at a higher rate. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1367 "2021-04-16T20:21:15Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I cannot imagine getting pulled over for driving 65 mph in a 70 mph zone. What a bizarre incident that was. Some of the places that I’ve worked at that had driving involved actually had governors that prevented you from driving over 65. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1368 "2021-04-16T21:06:02Z")
One recurring theme in these traffic stop episodes is that the driver (as with Daunte Wright) or a passenger (as with Marcellis Stinnette, killed in Waukegan, IL last November) has outstanding warrants. That immediately raises the stakes for the people in the car and escalates the episode from a routine traffic stop into something where a violent outcome becomes more likely. So it’s a vicious cycle, right? If Blacks are more likely than whites to be arrested and prosecuted – as per the Ferguson report – then they’re also more likely than whites to have outstanding warrants, which means their encounters with police (not just in traffic stops) are more likely to have higher stakes, which makes them more likely to try to resist or flee, which even if it doesn’t result in a deadly outcome is something they can be charged with which can lead to, yes, another outstanding warrant. I realize I’m using “more likely” a lot here, but with a sample of 350 million people “more likely” can turn into some grim realities. (And yes, if they’d just appear in court they wouldn’t have these outstanding warrants. But you’re always going to have a percentage of people who incur warrants, so the more a population has to face charges the more likely they are to have them.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1369 "2021-04-16T21:38:22Z")
You prolly think this is a worthy reply but you’re wrong. What fucking point do you think you’re trying to make in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1370 "2021-04-16T21:38:58Z")
Rochester, NY: > **[State's own expert told grand jury police didn't kill Prude](https://apnews.com/article/new-york-homicide-daniel-prude-rochester-0fd1d71c98ef27f9986c7b7a525e05f2)** > > Prosecutors overseeing a grand jury investigation into the death of Daniel Prude last year in Rochester, New York, undercut the case for criminal charges with testimony from a medical expert who said three police officers who held Prude to the ground... ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1371 "2021-04-16T21:43:23Z")
This probably has been mentioned here, but the crime of just standing outside is enough to get you tackled: > **[Former Tennis Player James Blake Details the Moment He Was Tackled by a Cop...](https://www.sportscasting.com/former-tennis-player-james-blake-details-the-moment-he-was-tackled-by-a-cop-in-mistaken-arrest/)** > > Former tennis star James Blake was once targeted by police officers. Recently, he discussed the harrowing tale of mistaken identity. There are other sites that talk about this incident, but this one had a video of what happened to James Blake, so it is why I included it. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1372 "2021-04-16T22:00:53Z")
Don’t worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1373 "2021-04-16T22:02:23Z")
I’m not worried, just confused: what point do you think you’re trying to make in this thread? Are you just here to be a jackass? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1374 "2021-04-16T22:06:22Z")
Nope. Just here to throw stuff into the quary. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1375 "2021-04-16T22:23:05Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > (And yes, if they’d just appear in court they wouldn’t have these outstanding warrants. But you’re always going to have a percentage of people who incur warrants, so the more a population has to face charges the more likely they are to have them.) And that is assuming that they were properly served with the court date and time. As well as their ability to get time off of work, as well as transportation, to attend. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1376 "2021-04-17T00:27:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Is that actually something they can pull you over for? Since when is that illegal? I’ve been away for a while and there’s 300 unread messages, but I’ll field this in case someone else hasn’t. It’s a case of a well intentioned law being abused. The law being a prohibition on the driver’s field of view being obstructed. ie. Having so much crap on the dashboard/hanging from the window that it’s a hazard to driving. The unintended consequence is that it gives LEO’s an excuse to pull you over because they want to pull you over and you haven’t done anything else to give them probable cause. So technically, anything besides a rear view mirror is a violation if they want it to be. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1377 "2021-04-17T00:48:22Z")
Wow! Is that an example of whitewashing or what? And it’s not like the shorter video they showed was any less horrifying! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1378 "2021-04-17T01:25:39Z")
FFS. The whole system is fucked up. > **[State's own expert told grand jury police didn't kill Prude](https://apnews.com/article/new-york-homicide-daniel-prude-rochester-0fd1d71c98ef27f9986c7b7a525e05f2)** > > Prosecutors overseeing a grand jury investigation into the death of Daniel Prude last year in Rochester, New York, undercut the case for criminal charges with testimony from a medical expert who said three police officers who held Prude to the ground... > [@](#): > > Prosecutors overseeing a grand jury investigation into the death of Daniel Prude last year in Rochester, New York, undercut the case for criminal charges with testimony from a medical expert who said three police officers who held Prude to the ground until he stopped breathing didn’t do anything wrong. > > Dr. Gary Vilke told the grand jury that Prude, a 41-year-old Black man, died of a heart attack caused by [the medical phenomenon known as excited delirium.](https://apnews.com/article/trials-minneapolis-death-of-george-floyd-racial-injustice-35e352d64b416d3c878cd6555dba94c2) He said the officers’ actions, which included placing a hood over Prude’s head, had no impact on his breathing, according to transcripts of the proceedings made public Friday. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1379 "2021-04-17T02:16:38Z")
Since I wasn’t there, I wouldn’t go so far as to say he was heroic, but I do believe that this shooting was justified. Yes, he was 13, but they didn’t know what he was going to do next. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1380 "2021-04-17T02:46:47Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Yes, he was 13, but they didn’t know what he was going to do next. He was a 13 year old kid standing with his hands up and no gun. What do you think he was going to do? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1381 "2021-04-17T02:47:42Z")
Murder by blackness. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1382 "2021-04-17T03:43:04Z")
Ok then. Thanks for letting everyone know your motivation for posting here. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1383 "2021-04-17T03:46:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The trouble is you and others like you are completely incapable of offering any solution that doesn’t start with, ‘First, let’s chuck it all in the bin!’ The trouble is, that’s the extent of your _helpful_ advice. If you want to characterize it as ‘chuck it all in the bin’, that’s your choice I guess. What we’re saying is that the problems with policing in the US may require more than fixing something one at a time - maybe more like two or three at a time. I don’t have all the answers. But to look at what we’ve seen the last 5-10 years in the age of YouTube and iPhone…it’s been an eye opener. My eyes have opened. I confess that I was skeptical of some of the complaints I heard from black and brown communities. I’m skeptical no more. I understand that there’s a whole 'nother reality that I’ve never had to deal with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=68) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=70)