# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 115
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2281 "2015-05-01T12:52:20Z")
> [@cutman74](#): > > A few posts back, someone mentioned that everyone broke the law at one time or another. If this is so, then it stands to reason that if a black man is five times more likely to be stopped by police(Ferguson, MO), then the crime rate among blacks would be consequentially higher. This pretty much puts to rest the idea that statistics prove that black people are more likely to commit crimes. The only thing it proves is that that black people are more likely to be prosecuted for said crimes. That is a bit convoluted, and it doesn’t really work that way. What analyses do robustly demonstrate is that living in impoverished conditions significantly contributes to engaging in criminal behavior. After you account for this, racial status no longer contributes any explanation for violent behavior. However, even after accounting for SES-related factors explaining behavior, there still remains disproportionate minority contact, arrest, and sentencing. In fact, the decision making process at nearly every point (diversion, probation, etc) yields evidence of racial bias. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2282 "2015-05-01T14:34:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It is if you think that being black means you’re less of a team player, or less intelligent, or less skilled, etc. It really is possible for someone to unconsciously apply negative characteristics to black people. Let’s remember that **Steophan** also doesn’t think it’s inherently racist to say “Blacks are subhuman” - he has no fucking leg to stand on when it comes to defining racism. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2283 "2015-05-01T15:10:57Z")
Steophan … virtually all people, really … would benefit from reading “[http://www.amazon.com/One-Understands-You-What-About/dp/1625274122](http://www.amazon.com/One-Understands-You-What-About/dp/1625274122)”. The title is misleading (needing to be something that will appeal to the personal ego). ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2284 "2015-05-01T15:25:29Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > At the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles, they have a Racism display. To get to the display, you have to choose a door. There are two doors, one for Prejudiced and one for Not Prejudiced. The Not Prejudiced door doesn’t open. The point was that _unconscious_ prejudice was pretty much the norm. Cute. But I can just see some random redneck with a confederate flag t shirt laughing at the Liberal McEnlightened family getting pissed because they can’t get through the “right door”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2285 "2015-05-01T15:33:21Z")
I see no good reason why we could not believe that **Steophan** has frank and candid discussions with his black friends, which promote mutual understanding by clarifying the issues he has in dealing with the less evolved humanoid types. Those few who are capable of such understanding are no doubt impressed by the clarity of his thinking as well as his shrewd and perceptive insights. Me? Tequila and bongwater, why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2286 "2015-05-01T15:38:51Z")
Officers charged in the death of Gray. > **[6 Baltimore Police Officers Charged in Freddie Gray Death (Published 2015)](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html)** > > Prosecutors in Baltimore described repeated mistreatment of a 25-year-old man whose death has set the city on edge. Offered without comment. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2287 "2015-05-01T15:48:15Z")
Let’s just go ahead and skip the next six months of this circus and get to the part where they’re acquitted because that’s what happens every time a cop is indicted on trumped-up political charges in order to appease the mob. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2288 "2015-05-01T15:54:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Let’s just go ahead and skip the next six months of this circus and get to the part where they’re acquitted because that’s what happens every time a cop is indicted on trumped-up political charges in order to appease the mob. It’s entirely possible that those cops broke the law. The trial will help us determine whether this is so or not. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2289 "2015-05-01T15:55:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Last edited by Smapti; Today at 10:48 PM… 😕 Was it more sensical before the edit? It could hardly have been less. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2290 "2015-05-01T15:59:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Let’s just go ahead and skip the next six months of this circus and get to the part where they’re acquitted because that’s what happens every time a cop is indicted on trumped-up political charges in order to appease the mob. So you know that Gray’s arrest was justified, but the charging of these police officers is not. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2291 "2015-05-01T16:01:56Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So you know that Gray’s arrest was justified, but the charging of these police officers is not. Why is that? As has been seen multiple times in this thread and others, **Smapti** is utterly incapable of distinguishing fact from his own fecal matter when it comes to anything relating to law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2292 "2015-05-01T16:05:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So you know that Gray’s arrest was justified, but the charging of these police officers is not. Why is that? Gray’s arrest didn’t occur because of a lawless horde causing destruction and demanding that the government find _something_ to charge him with. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2293 "2015-05-01T16:08:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s entirely possible that those cops broke the law. The trial will help us determine whether this is so or not. And when it doesn’t, I’m sure everyone crying for the blood of those cops will take a calm step back, acknowledge that the legal process has done its job, and move on with their lives. You know, exactly like they didn’t with Darren Wilson, Zimmerman, and the cops in the Garner and Rodney King matters. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2294 "2015-05-01T16:09:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And when it doesn’t I don’t trust your future-predicting abilities. > [@](#): > > , I’m sure everyone crying for the blood of those cops will take a calm step back, acknowledge that the legal process has done its job, and move on with their lives. > > You know, exactly like they didn’t with Darren Wilson, Zimmerman, and the cops in the Garner and Rodney King matters. It depends on what actually happens. We’ll see. Sometimes cops do bad things, and sometimes they’re successfully prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2295 "2015-05-01T16:12:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s entirely possible that those cops broke the law. The trial will help us determine whether this is so or not. > [@Smapti](#): > > And when it doesn’t, I’m sure everyone crying for the blood of those cops will take a calm step back, acknowledge that the legal process has done its job, and move on with their lives. Well, no, that is exactly what they should **not** do, if the trial does not help us determine whether the cops broke the law or not. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2296 "2015-05-01T16:16:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Gray’s arrest didn’t occur because of a lawless horde causing destruction and demanding that the government find _something_ to charge him with. No, in fact it is not at all clear why Gray was arrested at all. He had a knife which was legal for him to have. But it appears that he hadn’t committed any crime. Had he been allowed to go about his business, he wouldn’t be dead, and there wouldn’t be a ‘lawless horde’ demanding the government do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2297 "2015-05-01T16:19:11Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > No, in fact it is not at all clear why Gray was arrested at all. He had a knife which was legal for him to have. But it appears that he hadn’t committed any crime. How is it not clear? He observed some policemen who were minding _their_ own business and decided to freak out and run away from them. That’s probable cause. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2298 "2015-05-01T16:20:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How is it not clear? He observed some policemen who were minding _their_ own business and decided to freak out and run away from them. That’s probable cause. No, that’s intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2299 "2015-05-01T16:23:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How is it not clear? He observed some policemen who were minding _their_ own business and decided to freak out and run away from them. That’s probable cause. Probably cause of what? Aggravated jogging? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2300 "2015-05-01T16:23:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How is it not clear? He observed some policemen who were minding _their_ own business and decided to freak out and run away from them. That’s probable cause. It isn’t. US Supreme Court ruled that fleeing in a high crime area at the sight of police is enough to create reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion was enough to detain Gray - that is when they discovered the knife. Up to here everything is legal. But to arrest him they needed probable cause and according to the prosecutor, at least, the knife they arrested him for was legal to carry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=114) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=116)