# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 119
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2361 "2015-05-01T21:45:29Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > I don’t expect you to circle back to pick up the thread that is the context of our exchanges. You may feel compelled to divert. I’ll accept that you may not want to circle back/turn around at this point, but anything is possible. Also, it’s worth pointing out that the SA used the word “\*\*illegal \*\*” for a reason. (The police officers are being charged with 2nd-degree assault for a reason; they’re also being charged with false imprisonment for a reason (there being no legal or legitimate basis for the takedown/detention in the first place). Should anyone insist on separating out the foot pursuit and declare there was a lawful basis for him to be chased down and taken down … that their behavior was in keeping with proper protocol and procedure _until_ the moment hands were laid on him … they’re free to do that. In this case, there was a common, understandable but still ill-considered decision to retroactively rationalize a bad call (in this case pursuit and takedown) … as though it would escape notice that the supposed basis for arrest was (a) a lawful knife, and (b) even if unlawful, not discovered until AFTER that pursuit and takedown. (If he hadn’t been injured in the takedown and/or later (in effect) killed (even if death delayed), rather obviously it’d be one more of however many thousand instances a year where even a mediocre lawyer could’ve gotten the charges dismissed.) In the normal course, a cop wouldn’t need to care whether (s)he’d have to admit to a fuck-up that is not knowing X wasn’t illegal to possess. They always approach situations with the presumption (usually correct) that the person they are rousting has a criminal record. (What I’m trying to figure out is why one of them didn’t have any illegal contraband at hand, or why they didn’t say they believed they saw something that was consistent with X in his hand, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2362 "2015-05-01T21:47:14Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The State authorities decided to put them on trial. We are holding you to your frequently stated beliefs, which require you to shut up and accept the State’s judgment. And if they’re found guilty I will respect that. Will you and the mob respect it if they’re found not guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2363 "2015-05-01T21:57:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And if they’re found guilty I will respect that. Will you and the mob respect it if they’re found not guilty? No, no, no; you don’t get to dodge the subject. Your stated ideology requires you to refrain from pissing and moaning about this decision taken by your betters. Do so, and apologize for failing to do so until now. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2364 "2015-05-01T21:59:00Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Your stated ideology requires you to refrain from pissing and moaning about this decision taken by your betters. My stated ideology requires me to respect and abide by the results of the process. Not necessarily to like it. Will you and the mob respect it if they’re found not guilty? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2365 "2015-05-01T22:45:41Z")
[Video of police siccing a K-9 officer on a man for the crime of sitting on a couch with his hands up. The dog makes a chew toy of the man’s face. Very hard to watch.](http://www.sltrib.com/news/2460434-155/west-jordan-police-sued-for-excessive) Maybe Utah needs to go up in flames next for people to take this shit seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2366 "2015-05-01T22:59:22Z")
Well, then, clearly the dog needs extra sensitivity training and some reminders on “hands up, don’t bite”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2367 "2015-05-01T23:13:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, then, clearly the dog needs extra sensitivity training and some reminders on “hands up, don’t bite”. You really are a piece of shit, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2368 "2015-05-02T00:17:53Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Pity you can’t realize that you are insane. I’ve concluded that’s probably literally true, or he’s a troll. Either way, there’s no point engaging him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2369 "2015-05-02T00:38:29Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’ve concluded that’s probably literally true, or he’s a troll. Either way, there’s no point engaging him. Yes, your own personal political worldview is so objectively correct, and so blatantly obviously so, that anyone that disagrees with it _must_ be either lying or insane. It must be comforting to live in a world so cut and dry. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2370 "2015-05-02T01:00:20Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > I don’t expect you to circle back to pick up the thread that is the context of our exchanges. You may feel compelled to divert. I’ll accept that you may not want to circle back/turn around at this point, but anything is possible. I don’t expect you to admit you were wrong. But you were. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2371 "2015-05-02T01:02:25Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > IANAL, but I think the issue in Illinois v. Wardlow concerned a Terry Stop. If the police have a reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity (which is less than probable cause), they can briefly detain you and ask you to identify yourself. If they have an “articulable suspicion that the person detained may armed and dangerous”, they can frisk you. This happened to Wardlow and he was carrying a gun. So the BPD may have had cause for a Terry Stop, but not to arrest F.G. I was responding to someone who claimed that running after Grey was illegal. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2372 "2015-05-02T02:19:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, your own personal political worldview is so objectively correct, and so blatantly obviously so, that anyone that disagrees with it _must_ be either lying or insane. No, just you. It really is just you. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2373 "2015-05-02T02:24:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, your own personal political worldview is so objectively correct, and so blatantly obviously so, that anyone that disagrees with it _must_ be either lying or insane. > > It must be comforting to live in a world so cut and dry. Irony thy name is one note **Smapti**. For I haven’t seen you question your “Blue Wall” once in this whole thread. Cop did it, cop is right. Don’t think you are a troll as much as you are a retard with a shiny gumball machine badge. Hug your blanky, precious. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2374 "2015-05-02T02:25:48Z")
I have some questions and guesses about the facts and circumstances of the Gray death, but since it is now in the hands of the judicial system, I’m willing to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2375 "2015-05-02T02:41:18Z")
How can there be any question when a man is kidnaped and dies while in the custody of his kidnappers? Smapti et al = pitiful. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2376 "2015-05-02T02:41:50Z")
Rough rides in Baltimore paddy wagons: [INDENT]The Baltimore Sun reported this week that the city’s police have a reputation for so-called “rough rides,” when officers allegedly drive police vans recklessly in an attempt to knock around the passengers in the back — who are often shackled but not wearing seat belts. According to the Sun’s Doug Donovan and Mark Puente, the 2005 story of Dondi Johnson Sr., whose family received a $7.4 million settlement from the city, is the city’s most “sensational”: **the 43-year-old plumber, who had been arrested for public urination, “was handcuffed and placed in a transport van in good health. He emerged a quadriplegic.”** [/INDENT] Emphasis added. Routinely continuing such practices after such an event is depraved in my opinion. > **["Depraved heart murder" could put one Baltimore cop in prison for 30 years.](https://www.vox.com/2015/5/1/8529761/freddie-gray-depraved-murder)** > > It comes down to whether he disregarded the fact that what he was doing might kill Freddie Gray. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2377 "2015-05-02T02:49:14Z")
Did poor, dumb Smapti really bring up the cops who beat up Rodney King as an example of cops being exonerated by the courts. Did he forget about Sergeant Stacy Koon and the guy who made the “Gorillas in the mist” reference being led away to jail? ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2378 "2015-05-02T02:49:48Z")
[**White On White Violence**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdSsBYO1oNI) ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2379 "2015-05-02T04:10:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I was responding to someone who claimed that running after Grey was illegal. Me. I was wrong; it was the arrest that as illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2380 "2015-05-02T04:25:16Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > [**White On White Violence**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdSsBYO1oNI) That was pretty great. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=118) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=120)