# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 121
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2401 "2015-05-02T21:19:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then perhaps you need to reexamine your moral code. Says the guy who would not free slaves in another country if he had a risk-free opportunity, and says the guy who would turn in his Jewish neighbors if the government knocked on his door looking for Jews, and who believes “I was only following orders” is a [valid and reasonable defense for atrocities](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715377&postcount=439), and who believes that [MLK Jr.'s civil disobedience was wrong](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715412&postcount=444), and who believes that the _only fucking morally correct actions for a slave in the pre-1860s US was to [must suppress vomit] **[obey their master](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447)**_, and who has made many other similarly morally reprehensible statements. This is the guy telling someone to re-examine their moral code. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2402 "2015-05-02T21:21:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As do I. Mine tells me that order and peace imposed from above by the consent of all are better than people causing mass violence and destruction whenever they don’t get their way. Mine tells me that I don’t get to ignore the laws society has agreed on simply because I don’t like them. Mine tells me that those who think they can do whatever they want deserve whatever they get. Mine tells me that we’re all better off in a world with more Darren Wilsons and fewer Michael Browns. Yours tells you not to free slaves, that slaves must obey their master, that “just following orders” is a valid defense for genocide, that would turn in persecuted people to the authorities, and that MLK Jr. was wrong for civil disobedience… I think it’s you who should re-examine your moral code. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2403 "2015-05-02T21:22:17Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > Honestly, WTF is the “pro-Crime Lobby”? The people who hate cops because they like to speed or smoke marijuana and got caught for it. The people who think that gang activity and dealing drugs is just “part of our culture” and the cops are being racists by enforcing the laws against it. The people who think that any time a white police officer arrests a black person it’s racist. The people who think the cops are being unfair because every time a petty crook picks a fight with the cops, the cops win. The people who start riots and destroy property to demand that police officers be lynched for giving criminals what they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2404 "2015-05-02T21:25:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The people who hate cops because they like to speed or smoke marijuana and got caught for it. > > The people who think that gang activity and dealing drugs is just “part of our culture” and the cops are being racists by enforcing the laws against it. > > The people who think that any time a white police officer arrests a black person it’s racist. > > The people who think the cops are being unfair because every time a petty crook picks a fight with the cops, the cops win. > > The people who start riots and destroy property to demand that police officers be lynched for giving criminals what they deserve. So pretty much no one, then, because these are all ridiculous straw man arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2405 "2015-05-02T21:26:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So pretty much no one, then, because these are all ridiculous straw man arguments. Alright, so what’s _your_ reason for supporting petty criminals over the people? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2406 "2015-05-02T21:28:03Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > Honestly, WTF is the “pro-Crime Lobby”? Something that exists inside your head? Realistically, the prison-industrial complex fills that niche, being the ones whose rice bowls would get broken in the absence of crime. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2407 "2015-05-02T21:31:33Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > Honestly, WTF is the “pro-Crime Lobby”? Something that exists inside your head? Pro-crime is a stretch, but there’s definitely an anti-law enforcement view here, with people taking the position that it should be made more difficult for the police to do their job, because too many criminals who resist arrest or attack the police are getting hurt. Being pro-crime may not be the intention, but it’s without a doubt the effect. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2408 "2015-05-02T21:32:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Alright, so what’s _your_ reason for supporting petty criminals over the people? The two groups are synonymous, as illustrated by this classic example of how even the most cuckoo-for-Cocoa-Puffs wacko bird can occasionally stumble upon a valid insight\*: > [@](#): > > “Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.” \*So, remember, there’s hope even for you! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2409 "2015-05-02T21:32:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Alright, so what’s _your_ reason for supporting petty criminals over the people? I don’t, liar/coward/slavery-supporter-and-apologist/potential-collaborator-to-genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2410 "2015-05-02T21:37:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t, liar/coward/slavery-supporter-and-apologist/potential-collaborator-to-genocide. Then stop taking the side of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Freddie Gray, Rodney King, and their fellow travelers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2411 "2015-05-02T21:46:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then stop taking the side of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Freddie Gray, Rodney King, and their fellow travelers. I’m not on their “side”, though I’ll note that based on what you’ve posted in many threads, all of those people are better human beings than you. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2412 "2015-05-02T22:05:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The purpose of law enforcement is to protect the innocent and punish the guilty. Umm…no it’s not. Their job is NOT to punish the guilty. That’s the purview of the courts. Their job is to apprehend those committing or accused of crimes. Cops only get to punish the guilty in 80’s movies. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2413 "2015-05-02T22:10:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Pro-crime is a stretch Strikes me more as a desperate lie, truth be told. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2414 "2015-05-02T22:11:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The people who hate cops because they like to speed or smoke marijuana and got caught for it. > > The people who think that gang activity and dealing drugs is just “part of our culture” and the cops are being racists by enforcing the laws against it. > > The people who think that any time a white police officer arrests a black person it’s racist. > > The people who think the cops are being unfair because every time a petty crook picks a fight with the cops, the cops win. > > The people who start riots and destroy property to demand that police officers be lynched for giving criminals what they deserve. I haven’t read a single post on this thread advocating anything you say. So, again, read it for comprehension. May take you a few years, but since you _already are a waste of time_…why not? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2415 "2015-05-02T22:24:41Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > I haven’t read a single post on this thread advocating anything you say. > > So, again, read it for comprehension. Perhaps it’s you who hasn’t been reading closely enough. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2416 "2015-05-02T22:45:33Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The two groups are synonymous, as illustrated by this classic example You should include the source when you quote somebody. > **[A quote from Atlas Shrugged](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/319903-did-you-really-think-we-want-those-laws-observed-said)** > > Did you really think we want those laws observed? said Dr. Ferris. We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy... It’s not just a good idea, it’s the law. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2417 "2015-05-02T22:52:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The overwhelming majority of this thread is people complaining about the idea of the police _doing their job_. Nobody seems to be complaining about the police’s effectiveness at taking Caesar Goodson, Brian Rice, Alicia White, Garrett Miller, William Porter, or Edward Nero into custody, so I’m not sure what you’re complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2418 "2015-05-02T23:18:57Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Nobody seems to be complaining about the police’s effectiveness at taking Caesar Goodson, Brian Rice, Alicia White, Garrett Miller, William Porter, or Edward Nero into custody, so I’m not sure what you’re complaining about. The fact that you compare the people protecting us from the Freddie Grays of the world to common criminals is baffling. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2419 "2015-05-02T23:30:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact that you compare the people protecting us from the Freddie Grays of the world to common criminals is baffling. How do you know they were protecting us? How can you be so certain that they behaved properly? Why do you express certainty about something you couldn’t possibly know? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2420 "2015-05-02T23:35:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How do you know they were protecting us? How can you be so certain that they behaved properly? Why do you express certainty about something you couldn’t possibly know? You seem to be rather fond of proclaiming that you don’t know and can’t know things. How do you know we even exist, let alone that any such person as Freddie Gray ever did? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=120) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=122)