# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 128
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2541 "2015-05-07T15:18:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police are sworn servants of the public. Their word is to be preferred by default in the absence of evidence against it. Your world is a perfect syllogism, isn’t it? These are the people who we define as trustworthy, therefore we should always trust them, and damn the evidence to the contrary. If police had not, in hundreds of ways and over thousands of incidents, shown themselves to be prone to lying, violence, and the violation of citizens’ rights, you might have a point. The problem is that a staggering amount of evidence demonstrates quite clearly that, even though we _ **should** _ be able to trust the word of the police, we often can’t, because they seem, as a group, to be no more honest and trustworthy and reliable than the criminals that they are supposed to protect us from. My stepfather is a retired police officer. My mother spent the last 12 years of her working life as a civilian worker in a number of large police stations. We had cops around our place a lot, and they all seemed like great people who took their jobs seriously. But despite my belief that being a police officer is an admirable and important job, and despite my predisposition, based on my own personal experience, to trust and respect the job, i no longer have confidence that a randomly-selected police officer is more trustworthy or believable in a he-said-she-said situation than any other random stranger. I didn’t come to this belief because i’m a cop-hater. I came to it because a mounting pile of evidence suggests that too many cops are bullies and assholes and liars who take the job precisely _ **because** _ it allows them to get away with being bullies and assholes and liars. One of my best students at the university where i teach told me the other day that, when she graduates, she’s applying to join the San Diego Police Department. I told her that was great, and i really meant it, because i think that the SDPD will benefit from the addition of a thoughtful, intelligent, socially-aware person who really wants to do some good in the world. What we need is police forces who actively look for this sort of person, rather than take any power-hungry bully who wants to strap on a badge and gun. And we also need our police hierarchies to make clear to the good cops that it is acceptable—nay, that it is essential—for them to help root out the bad ones. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2542 "2015-05-07T15:19:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Or maybe it has a little something to do with the history of “peaceful” protestors in Washington looting and smashing car windows like they did to me last year. Were there any police in the area at the time? Because it sure seems like mayhem attends them. It is kind of like the uncertainty principle, we cannot be sure that “looting and violence” would occur in absence of the black-shirts. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2543 "2015-05-07T15:52:33Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The same could be said of the President, or members of Congress. Do you view their comments with the same deference? Police are appointed, not elected. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2544 "2015-05-07T15:54:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Were there any police in the area at the time? Because it sure seems like mayhem attends them. It is kind of like the uncertainty principle, we cannot be sure that “looting and violence” would occur in absence of the black-shirts. The main body of the police were monitoring the larger protests about a mile away from where the “peaceful” protestors decided to smash my windows in. I guess I should be glad my windows were smashed and I had to pay to replace them because it raises awareness of something. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2545 "2015-05-07T16:00:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The main body of the police were monitoring the larger protests about a mile away from where the “peaceful” protestors decided to smash my windows in. > > I guess I should be glad my windows were smashed and I had to pay to replace them because it raises awareness of something. Sure it wasn’t a neighbor? I get the feeling that if I were in that position, it may have been an opportunity I couldn’t ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2546 "2015-05-07T16:11:55Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > One of my best students at the university where i teach told me the other day that, when she graduates, she’s applying to join the San Diego Police Department. I told her that was great, and i really meant it, because i think that the SDPD will benefit from the addition of a thoughtful, intelligent, socially-aware person who really wants to do some good in the world. He may be out of luck if they use [this criterion](http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836): > [@](#): > > A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city… ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2547 "2015-05-07T16:26:38Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > He may be out of luck if they use [this criterion](http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836): > > > [@](#): > > > > A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city… They could hire **Smapti** , then. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2548 "2015-05-07T16:28:53Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > He may be out of luck if they use [this criterion](http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836): But it’s true that most law enforcement agencies aren’t particularly interested in anyone with an above-average IQ (because it is also true that police work is no different than a majority of jobs after they become rote: dull.) Rather unfortunately, the earlier-mentioned 40% (20% who want to be “super cops” and 20% malcontents (for lack of other words) are those insistent on making it a pulse-pounding or otherwise entertaining endeavor. (Kinda like court and motor vehicle clerks, only … different.) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2549 "2015-05-07T16:47:04Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > He may be out of luck if they use [this criterion](http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836): Wow. No words. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2550 "2015-05-07T16:49:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Or maybe it has a little something to do with the history of “peaceful” protestors in Washington looting and smashing car windows like they did to me last year. Did they know you? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2551 "2015-05-07T17:01:03Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > He may be out of luck if they use [this criterion](http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836): > > > [@](#): > > > > A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city… Amusing line at the end of the story, “_Jordan has worked as a prison guard since he took the test._” But I wonder if there has been any change in this in the last fifteen years since the story was posted. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2552 "2015-05-08T14:11:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Or maybe it has a little something to do with the history of “peaceful” protestors in Washington looting and smashing car windows like they did to me last year. OH yes…all of those ‘riots’ in Olympia…I am calling BS on that, you are WAY too paranoid to actually hang out where the riots happen up here, despite how safe those places are. Remember that the Seattle police…have a DOCUMENTED history of violence, bigotry and violation of citizens rights. > **[spd\_findletter\_12-16-11.pdf](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/crt/legacy/2011/12/16/spd_findletter_12-16-11.pdf)** > > 1416.07 KB The ONLY reason this police corruption is so wide spread is that citizens like yourself are willing to completely ignore thier crimes and in fact say that the police have no duty to follow their own oath. You may want to look at that oath BTW, the powers we gift officers is a burden on THEM to be extra careful. It is not carte blanche to arrest, beat or kill innocent citizens. When a police officer commits a crime they are also breaking that oath which you seem to hold dear. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2553 "2015-05-08T16:32:12Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The ONLY reason this police corruption is so wide spread is that citizens like yourself are willing to completely ignore thier crimes and in fact say that the police have no duty to follow their own oath. What “widespread corruption”? There is no widespread corruption. What we have lately is a series of non-stories trumped up by the race-baiting “activists” and the media because it’s the flavor of the month. > [@](#): > > When a police officer commits a crime they are also breaking that oath which you seem to hold dear. _If_ a police officer commits a crime. The overwhelming majority of people who cry “police brutality” are criminals who are mad at the cops for enforcing the laws they were breaking. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2554 "2015-05-08T16:34:11Z")
Everytime **Smapti** posts in a law enforcement thread an angel gets shanked in the wings. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2555 "2015-05-08T17:07:35Z")
Better in the original German. (Not stolen from Molly Ivins, more a like a gift…) ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2556 "2015-05-08T17:13:47Z")
Today we have a video from 2013 finally being released after an ACLU lawsuit showing an officer doing his best place kicker impression. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3072698/Dover-police-officer-charged-assault-video-released.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3072698/Dover-police-officer-charged-assault-video-released.html) This another non-story, Smapti? He have it coming? Should have complied faster? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2557 "2015-05-08T18:02:44Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Today we have a video from 2013 finally being released after an ACLU lawsuit showing an officer doing his best place kicker impression. So let’s see if I’ve got this right. A career criminal who’s been in trouble with the law before and since this incident resisted arrest. The police didn’t shoot him, Tase him, turn the dogs on him, use their batons on him, or do anything other than use a little unarmed force. Both the grand jury and the federal government found no grounds to prosecute at the time, and the officer since went back to doing his job and the criminal went back to driving drunk and dealing illegal weapons. But now that “white police arresting black people = **RACISM** ” is the cause celebre of the moment until we find something else to be outraged about, they’re calling a do over and charging him with assault over what they already determined to be legal. So to answer your questions; > [@](#): > > This another non-story, Smapti? He have it coming? Should have complied faster? Yes, yes, and yes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2558 "2015-05-08T18:09:21Z")
Considering that **Smapti** wouldn’t free slaves at no risk to himself, and would turn in his neighbors if the government was rounding up their ethnic group, the fact that he has no problem with cops face-kicking people while they’re on the ground is pretty unsurprising. It’s actually one of his better qualities, considering all the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2559 "2015-05-08T18:17:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering that **Smapti** wouldn’t free slaves at no risk to himself, and would turn in his neighbors if the government was rounding up their ethnic group, the fact that he has no problem with cops face-kicking people while they’re on the ground is pretty unsurprising. > > It’s actually one of his better qualities, considering all the rest. Wait, what! Smapti doesn’t believe in freeing slaves??? On what basis does he believe this? Do you have a link to his claim? Not challenging BTW, it’s just that’s such a bizarre claim. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2560 "2015-05-08T18:20:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Wait, what! > > Smapti doesn’t believe in freeing slaves??? > > On what basis does he believe this? > > Do you have a link to his claim? > > Not challenging BTW, it’s just that’s such a bizarre claim. Sure – [here it is](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17719100#post17719100). Read the follow up several posts, if you like. And in addition to this, **Smapti** believes that [MLK Jr.'s civil disobedience was wrong](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715412&postcount=444), and he believes that the _only fucking morally correct actions for a slave in the pre-1860s US was to [must suppress vomit] **[obey their master](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447)**_. He really said this stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=127) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=129)