# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 130
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2581 "2015-05-08T19:38:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because I wanted to? If you feel no obligation, then you’re a terrible person and a terrible member of society. Part of being in society means an obligation to provide the very basics of aid (and all this really means is calling 911, if you don’t want to or aren’t able to directly provide aid) to those who are in immediate need if you encounter them in your community. In any case, if you actually act in the way that your posts advocate, you’re an absolutely terrible neighbor, and a terrible member of society – much worse than petty criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2582 "2015-05-08T19:48:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Part of being in society means an obligation to provide the very basics of aid (and all this really means is calling 911, if you don’t want to or aren’t able to directly provide aid) to those who are in immediate need if you encounter them in your community. It also includes obeying the law, and you have no problem treating that as optional. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2583 "2015-05-08T19:52:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It also includes obeying the law, and you have no problem treating that as optional. Wrong, liar/coward. I’m all for obeying the law – including for cops. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2584 "2015-05-08T19:55:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I never said I wouldn’t. I said I wouldn’t be _obligated_ to. We’re veering into Objectivism territory here… ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2585 "2015-05-08T19:56:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So let’s see if I’ve got this right. A career criminal who’s been in trouble with the law before and since this incident resisted arrest. The police didn’t shoot him, Tase him, turn the dogs on him, use their batons on him, or do anything other than use a little unarmed force. Both the grand jury and the federal government found no grounds to prosecute at the time, and the officer since went back to doing his job and the criminal went back to driving drunk and dealing illegal weapons. > > But now that “white police arresting black people = **RACISM** ” is the cause celebre of the moment until we find something else to be outraged about, they’re calling a do over and charging him with assault over what they already determined to be legal. > > So to answer your questions; > > Yes, yes, and yes. What in blue fucking blazes does his past or future incidents have to do with this incident? He was complying with teh police office when the officer decided to KICK HIM IN THE FACE AND BREAK HIS JAW. I can see nothing that justifies that level of force. I personnally, would love to find out why the Grand Jury and AG found nothing to charge. Did they see that video!? If not, why not? Did the prosecutor tank the Grand Jury proceedings? I can’t see how any sane person sees that video and thinks, “Eh. Probably had it coming.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2586 "2015-05-08T20:12:11Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > What in blue fucking blazes does his past or future incidents have to do with this incident? As usual with these outrages du jour, the suspect is not some pure-as-the-driven snow innocent. He’s a career criminal who’s continued his life of crime since this incident and will likely continue to do so until he gets himself killed. Maybe if he’d gotten some common sense beaten into him a little more often he’d have learned to straighten up and fly right by now. > [@](#): > > He was complying with teh police office when the officer decided to KICK HIM IN THE FACE AND BREAK HIS JAW. He had to be told what, four times to get on the ground before he _slowly_ started doing so? He looked like he was more worried about his hat then the men with guns. > [@](#): > > I can see nothing that justifies that level of force. Did we watch the same video? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2587 "2015-05-08T20:13:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It also includes obeying the law, and you have no problem treating that as optional. Obeying the law as a member of society isn’t the same as instantly obeying the often incomprehensible and/or contradictory commands of some cop. And that’s what so often goes so horribly wrong. Resulting in an unnecessary casualty to some citizen. Ever watch one of those cop shows? I admit, I’ve done it, usually in the middle of a night of insomnia. Next time you do, pay attention to the “takedowns”. I’ve seen cops screaming for people to “roll over on your face!!!” when the person is lying prone on their belly. Shout “Put your hands out! Put your hands up! Put 'em up! Behind you! (repeats)…” Do what??? “Gimme your hand! Stop resisting! Stop resisting!” at someone whose hands are already in cuffs, and more I won’t bother to recount. The commands are incomprehensible even to me, sitting in my living room with the luxury of instant rewind. Even people who may be trying to comply have little chance of guessing what the cop actually wants, since it often differs from what he is screaming for the person to do. And what is with the “Real quick!” thing? Is that some new jargon in cop-speak? Again, watch a cop show and see how many times cops say “Real quick!” as part of their interaction with citizens. It seems wildly inappropriate for situations that would probably benefit from calm, slow, and deliberate actions. And that’s the point. The cop is the person in control, the one who sets the tone for the interaction. Using stupidly inappropriate phrases like “real quick!” from the first moment of contact, through screaming contradictory and frighteningly incomprehensible commands to effect a “detention” is certain to escalate contact situations, thus making them more dangerous for everyone. Cops should be better trained and encouraged to look for ways to de-escalate encounters rather than agitate citizens, offenders or not. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2588 "2015-05-08T20:13:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m all for obeying the law Unless the law involves anything you personally find morally distasteful and/or personally inconvenient. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2589 "2015-05-08T20:16:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > … Maybe if he’d gotten some common sense beaten into him a little more often he’d have learned to straighten up and fly right by now… And this is why there’s a Pit thread devoted to calling you names. Rightly so, I might add. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2590 "2015-05-08T20:16:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Unless the law involves anything you personally find morally distasteful and/or personally inconvenient. Bullshit, liar, unless you’re just referring to fucking slavery. And if you want to claim that it’s wrong to disobey laws _for slavery_, then just continue to dig your own morally bankrupt, cowardly grave. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2591 "2015-05-08T20:39:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I do not believe that slavery should be permitted or that efforts to abolish slavery are illegitimate. > > What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so. Democracy cannot function unless the will of the people is respected and adhered to - deciding that your own personal moral compass trumps the law and so you’re going to ignore or actively disobey the laws you don’t like is anathetical to the democratic process. Ok, then I’m confused as to why you condemned Dr. King. How could Mississippi in the early 1960s be considered a democracy when black people weren’t allowed to vote? Or do you think one can be a democracy while denying citizens the right to vote because they’re black? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2592 "2015-05-08T20:51:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How could Mississippi in the early 1960s be considered a democracy when black people weren’t allowed to vote? > > Or do you think one can be a democracy while denying citizens the right to vote because they’re black? Of course it can, unless your argument is that American democracy began in 1965. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2593 "2015-05-08T21:15:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As usual with these outrages du jour, the suspect is not some pure-as-the-driven snow innocent. He’s a career criminal who’s continued his life of crime since this incident and will likely continue to do so until he gets himself killed. Maybe if he’d gotten some common sense beaten into him a little more often he’d have learned to straighten up and fly right by now. Or maybe he will swear to get revenge by killing any unsuspecting cop he can get the drop on. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2594 "2015-05-08T21:36:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did we watch the same video? Yes…but only one of us giggled and got a stiffie, pervert. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2595 "2015-05-08T21:38:35Z")
Bumping this post as it was ignored the first time > [@Smapti](#): > > At this point, it should be obvious to anyone with the slightest iota of a self preservation instinct that not treating the police with the same respect one would a mama grizzly is not going to end well for you. To an extent you are right… and that situation is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Hypothetical: we get very clear video of a day in the life of a particular cop. He stops 10 cars for speeding. The first 9 are black drivers who are calm and respectful, and he gives them tickets. The last is another black driver, same general age/appearance/demeanor as the first 9. But when the cop asks him to roll down his window, he mutters “fucking honky cops”. The cop then beats him savagely and arrests him on trumped up charges. Now, clearly the guy took actions which he could have avoided which contributed to his beating. And some liberals in this thread might be tempted to use hyperbolic language and claim that the cop was so racist that he would beat up black people for literally no reason whatsoever, which was clearly disproved by the fact that the cop did NOT beat the first 9 black drivers. So in your opinion, who was at fault? Who was responsible for what happened? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2596 "2015-05-08T22:59:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so. Democracy cannot function unless the will of the people is respected and adhered to - deciding that your own personal moral compass trumps the law and so you’re going to ignore or actively disobey the laws you don’t like is anathetical to the democratic process. In 1945 and '46 the victorious allies imprisoned many and executed some Germans who obeyed orders from their duly and democratically chosen leaders. There are limits. Always. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2597 "2015-05-09T02:12:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Of course it can, unless your argument is that American democracy began in 1965. So, just to be clear, you think that the state government of Mississippi of 1960 was democratically elected even though 40% of the population were denied the right to vote based solely on their race? Ok, two questions. One, if think that a government can be a democracy even when it disenfranchises people solely on their race, then how exactly do you define a democracy? Second, what exactly is your level of education? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2598 "2015-05-09T02:43:23Z")
You know, I wonder what would happen to **Smapti’s** attitude if he was misidentified by a cop(s) and had the snot beaten out of him for no reason. In a town I once lived in, the county cops raided the mayor’s house by mistake and shot his dog, so these things do happen. **Cop** : “Stop resisting!” **Smapti** : " I’m not resisting!" **Cop** : “Yes, you are.” Down rain the nightsticks… ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2599 "2015-05-09T14:41:51Z")
[Woman stun gunned by border patrol officer for being loud and indignant](http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/news05/ogdensburg-woman-says-border-patrol-agent-shocked-her-with-stun-gun-video-20150509?utm_source=CcvhV3&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=wdt.me&utm_content=http%3A%2F%2Fl.facebook.com%2Fl.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwdt.me%252FCcvhV3%26h%3D2AQE3OBufAQHaz8x9izGlE80BuoqnUO_PZ79rD3QBGr_9QQ%26enc%3DAZOGN8hY0nIZlCy6pOSem7GiYruRZQ9Su1W-tQPX-lI8loCjGWpg0s44csNI5oxVZg5xMwGw5zIhYx9gzn7XYiiA-_v9tSwH_1dGz5pDM7BzzZ3B-OPAO7J18X9Owyl4eZ_PCRmbYjtqVEXnzwtxWZwPIRVl8Ky7Be41Cz2qGVk_y_bjCP3Hvj7eIVj3Ed6pqDWrFzEtf0juGF9SAed1ecCw%26s%3D1) I can’t say I would have been nearly as assertive as this woman was. But I may have been if they had been detaining me indefinitely for no clear reason and I was already late for work or an appointment. I hope the lady does sue that officer and wins. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2600 "2015-05-09T15:01:33Z")
Huh. Anyone else see the map on that page showing the location of the stop as in south-central Kazakstan? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=129) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=131)