# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 133
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2641 "2015-05-09T20:49:23Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Yes, smapti is talking out of his ass again. > > [http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm](http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm) And that’s why this country hasn’t won a war in 70 years. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2642 "2015-05-09T20:52:37Z")
wow ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2643 "2015-05-09T21:01:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that’s why this country hasn’t won a war in 70 years. God you’re full of shit. Truly a liar, an idiot, and a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2644 "2015-05-09T21:02:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > By his reasoning, South Africa was a democracy in the apartheid years… True. You’ll also love how he insists that South Africa(which explicitly privileged whites over Coloureds, Asians and blacks) was a democracy while Ba’athist Syria wasn’t because despite it claiming to be for all of it’s citizens, the Syrian government only served the interests of the Aliwites. I’d certainly love an explanation regarding that from him, but I seriously doubt I’ll get one, or at least not one that remotely makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2645 "2015-05-09T21:03:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > God you’re full of shit. Truly a liar, an idiot, and a coward. He already has his own Pit thread (that I know of, there may be more), please fail to make this thread about him. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2646 "2015-05-09T21:04:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that’s why this country hasn’t won a war in 70 years. That’s a rather bold statement from a guy who seems to be admitting that he was completely unaware of US military policy until that policy. Beyond that, are you under the impression that US soldiers in WWII were not under any obligation to obey unlawful orders? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2647 "2015-05-09T21:07:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’d certainly love an explanation regarding that from him, but I seriously doubt I’ll get one, or at least not one that remotely makes sense. South Africa actually made an effort to divest itself of the population it didn’t care to represent, and I’m sure that the apartheid regime would have loved nothing more than for the Bantustans to become autonomous and self-sufficient so they didn’t have to deal with them. Of course, it didn’t work out that way. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2648 "2015-05-09T21:08:16Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Personally, as someone who lives near the border, i think that the leeway our laws give to the Border Patrol is too great. Their zone of authority within the United States should, in my opinion, be much smaller and more restricted than it currently is. Oh, it’s obviously a ridiculous law. But that doesn’t mean that anyone should expect to disobey it without consequences. It rather annoys me to see entitled idiots (meaning the woman in the article, not you) getting upset with the consequences of breaking the law, when the actual protesters in the civil rights movement accepted the punishment, and highlighted it as a way to show the laws were unjust. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2649 "2015-05-09T21:08:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Beyond that, are you under the impression that US soldiers in WWII were not under any obligation to obey unlawful orders? I’m under the impression that in WWII we did what had to be done, and if that meant burning tens of thousands of people in atomic fire, that was the price of doing business, and we didn’t cry about it or assert that it was somehow “illegal”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2650 "2015-05-09T21:15:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > South Africa actually made an effort to divest itself of the population it didn’t care to represent, and I’m sure that the apartheid regime would have loved nothing more than for the Bantustans to become autonomous and self-sufficient so they didn’t have to deal with them. Of course, it didn’t work out that way. You know utterly nothing of South Africa. I’d go so far as to say that you know even less about South Africa than you do of Syria or Iraq. They certainly never tried to “divest itself of the population it didn’t care to represent”. They needed black people and they liked having them or were you unaware how many white families didn’t have black maids and how few of their businesses didn’t have black workers. If you think I’m wrong, feel free to check with Mr.Dibble. And let’s not even go into your knee slapper that the South African government actually wanted the bantustans to be “autonomous” and “self-sufficient”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2651 "2015-05-09T21:19:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m under the impression that in WWII we did what had to be done, and if that meant burning tens of thousands of people in atomic fire, that was the price of doing business, and we didn’t cry about it or assert that it was somehow “illegal”. Then you need to be educated on WWII. Yes, there were plenty of instances of American soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes. In all seriousness, where do you get most of your information? Are you under the impression that war movies reflect reality? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2652 "2015-05-09T21:19:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > They certainly never tried to “divest itself of the population it didn’t care to represent”. So you’re telling me they _didn’t_ segregate the blacks into homelands that were granted degrees of independence? > [@](#): > > They needed black people and they liked having them or were you unaware how many white families didn’t have black maids and how few of their businesses didn’t have black workers. By that logic, America “needs” Latinos and Mexico is little more than a puppet state that we don’t want to be autonomous or self-sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2653 "2015-05-09T21:22:09Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, there were plenty of instances of American soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes. “War crimes” started out as a fiction invented so we didn’t have to think about the things we had to do to win wars. It took a few decades to evolve into something that prevents us from winning wars because we’re no longer willing to do the things that need to be done - that’s why ISIS is able to seize new territory every day while we wring our hands worrying that shrapnel from a bomb might cut an innocent person’s cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2654 "2015-05-09T21:29:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > By that logic, America “needs” Latinos and Mexico is little more than a puppet state that we don’t want to be autonomous or self-sufficient. Well yes, your economy certainly needs illegal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2655 "2015-05-09T21:39:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re telling me they _didn’t_ segregate the blacks into homelands that were granted degrees of independence? They created an illusion which made it easier for them to give gullible westerners reason to claim they were a democracy and made it easier to control the black population of South Africa by claiming most were illegal immigrants. > [@](#): > > By that logic, America “needs” Latinos and Mexico is little more than a puppet state that we don’t want to be autonomous or self-sufficient. No, not even close. Seriously educate yourself. I know you decided college wasn’t for you, but there are things called libraries and the internet. In the meantime, You’ve yet to explain why you have such an irrational definition of democracy whereby any country that claims it’s a democracy is one so long as it purports to have regular elections, even if such elections are kangaroo elections(I did love the fact they you don’t feel free and fair elections are necessary) and claim they want the best interests of their citizens. BTW, you’ve yet to explain how exactly Iraq is a democracy committed to helping all of it’s citizens while Syria can’t be considered a democracy because you think they didn’t. Both Syria and Iraq had large religious and ethnic minorities. By your logic, the Iraqi Kurds and Mandaeans must have been treated really well and integrated into society while the Druze, Kurds, and Christians weren’t. Of course everyone remotely familiar with the area knows this to not be true. Whatever made you think such a foolish thing? Beyond that, you claimed that East Germany was “more democratic” than Poland or Bulgaria during the Warsaw Pact era. Please explain how they were “more Democratic”? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2656 "2015-05-09T21:45:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Well yes, your economy certainly needs illegal immigrants. More like immigrants and you’ll notice just about all western economies depend on immigrants. That said, Smapti’s belief that the US or the UK depend on immigrants at remotely to the extent that Apartheid South Africa shows a stunning ignorance of proportion. In South Africa until the fall of Apartheid, even the poorest of whites generally had black servants. I know of no blue collar whites in the US who had Mexican or Salvadoran servants. I could be wrong, but I’ll assume it’s extremely uncommon for blue collar whites in the UK to have black or Asian servants. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2657 "2015-05-09T21:47:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “War crimes” started out as a fiction invented so we didn’t have to think about the things we had to do to win wars. It took a few decades to evolve into something that prevents us from winning wars because we’re no longer willing to do the things that need to be done - that’s why ISIS is able to seize new territory every day while we wring our hands worrying that shrapnel from a bomb might cut an innocent person’s cheek. I’m betting that you like to describe yourself as being hard-headed and realistic. A no-nonsense kind of guy who can face the hard facts of life and make them just a little harder. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2658 "2015-05-09T21:49:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m betting that you like to describe yourself as being hard-headed and realistic. A no-nonsense kind of guy who can face the hard facts of life and make them just a little harder. True. He’s probably seen every episode of 24, has a poster of Jack Bauer he masturbates to before falling asleep, and has no idea that the US was executing people for war crimes at least as far back as the Civil War. Unless of course he’s been lying in which case I have to find it odd that he’d have been able to keep up the pretense for this long. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2659 "2015-05-10T01:10:26Z")
Getting back, sort of, on topic. A bit of sympathy for the cops who have to deal with racist civilians who sic the fuzz on innocent African Americans. [Cops To White People: Stop Getting Freaked Out By Your Black Neighbors](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/05/07/cops-to-white-people-stop-getting-freaked-out-by-your-black-neighbors-screenshots/) (SCREENSHOTS and link to Reddit) > [@](#): > > Ya know, I’m just going to complain and get some stuff off my chest. > > So I’m working last week and get dispatched to a call of ‘Suspicious Activity.’ Ya’ll wanna know what the suspicious activity was? Someone walking around in the dark with a flashlight and crow bar? Nope. Someone walking into a bank with a full face mask on? Nope. > > It was two black males who were jump starting a car at 9:30 in the morning. That was it. Nothing else. Someone called it in. > > People. People. People. If you’re going to be a racist, stereotypical jerk…keep it to yourself. Don’t call the police and make them get involved into your douchebaggery. > That’s all. End rant. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2660 "2015-05-10T02:30:47Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Getting back, sort of, on topic. A bit of sympathy for the cops who have to deal with racist civilians who sic the fuzz on innocent African Americans. > > [Cops To White People: Stop Getting Freaked Out By Your Black Neighbors](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/05/07/cops-to-white-people-stop-getting-freaked-out-by-your-black-neighbors-screenshots/) (SCREENSHOTS and link to Reddit) I have sympathy for the victims more. On the topic of racist viral news I would hate to be on the SF PD and be associated with this type of crap. [ > [@](#): > > “we celebrate whiteness” and that African-American women “should be spayed.” ]([San Francisco cops’ racist, sexist, homophobic texts prompt inquiry - Ars Technica](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/05/san-francisco-cops-racist-sexist-homophobic-texts-prompts-inquiry/)) And due to the non-apology from one of them, I am doubly sorry for any citizens who have to interact with them. > [@](#): > > “If I offended anybody, I’m sorry. I’m truly, truly sorry,” he told CNN. “However, it’s banter amongst friends.” I call my “friends” out when they make racist remarks, not sure how he thinks it made things better. Maybe because it was suppose to be “private” it is OK? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=132) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=134)