# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 139
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2761 "2015-05-22T13:53:56Z")
Of course it is stupid to carry large amounts of cash, for you never know when a criminal might rob you. When the criminal is a police officer, it can add injury to the insult. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2762 "2015-05-22T13:59:33Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Well, a DWI is not exactly “nothing”. If they felt that jail time was warranted, I suspect it probably was, though switching it from 2 to 7 days, I would like to see how they came up with that. Apparently Texas has a [72 hour minimum](https://www.dwi.com/texas/texas-dwi-penalties/) sentence for dui. > [@](#): > > Confinement in the County Jail for a term of not less the 72 hours nor more that six (6) months. Open Container – If there was an open container of alcohol in your car when arrested, the minimum term of confinement is six (6) days in the county jail. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2763 "2015-05-22T14:50:37Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Smapti, dude. I prefer to carry cash on vacation. When we do St Martin for two weeks I typically carry 3 grand. I also carry credit cards, but I like being able to put cash on the table/bar and be done. How much cash can I carry before I’m “suspicious”? I never carry cash unless I’m expecting to go somewhere where I know they don’t take cards. If I’m on vacation I may carry a few hundred on me, but I keep the rest in the bank and if I need more foldin’ money I use an ATM or go to the store. That’s just common sense - It’s a lot easier for a thief to spend your pilfered cash than it is for them to drain your bank account. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2764 "2015-05-22T14:52:13Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > And why take ALL the money? Yes, the person can sue to get it back, but why leave them completely without funds at all? Doesn’t that sound harsh? If the money was acquired illegally, why should they be allowed to keep _any_ of it? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2765 "2015-05-22T14:53:35Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Smapti, dude. I prefer to carry cash on vacation. When we do St Martin for two weeks I typically carry 3 grand. I also carry credit cards, but I like being able to put cash on the table/bar and be done. How much cash can I carry before I’m “suspicious”? > > (I’m white) $3K for vacation is reasonable. $16K, whether on vacation or not, is not. Do you need an exact cutoff point? That said, just having the money on you should not be good enough for “probable cause” of a crime being committed. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2766 "2015-05-22T14:57:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If the money was acquired illegally, why should they be allowed to keep _any_ of it? You beg the very question at the heart of civil asset forfeiture: the police take the money without ever proving that it was acquired illegally. The fact that _ **you** _ would be “very surprised” if the money was acquired legally is not—or, in a reasonable world, should not be—the standard by which we determine whether or not that is, in fact, the case. And nor should the say-so of a police officer who has a clear interest in taking the money because he knows that it will go into his own department’s coffers. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2767 "2015-05-22T15:09:15Z")
Oh, and to answer the “Nobody riots in Olympia, you paranoid fascist” comment from upthread, [here’s the scene about half a mile from my house last night.](http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/raw-video-protests-in-olympia-end-after-clash-with/vDShxL/#storylink=relast) And this isn’t even some “white cop kills unarmed black guy because **RACISM** ” incident - this is over [a non-fatal shooting](http://www.thenewstribune.com/2015/05/21/3802224/two-suspected-shoplifters-shot.html) in which a cop _wounded_ two men, in self-defense, when they attacked him with a skateboard while fleeing the scene of an attempted grocery store robbery. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2768 "2015-05-22T15:19:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If the money was acquired illegally, why should they be allowed to keep _any_ of it? I don’t think police should have that power to decide, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2769 "2015-05-22T15:21:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t think police should have that power to decide, do you? No, that’s the court’s decision. But just as we don’t wait until after someone is convicted of murder to arrest them, we don’t wait until after the civil process has been conducted to seize the dirty money. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2770 "2015-05-22T15:35:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, that’s the court’s decision. But just as we don’t wait until after someone is convicted of murder to arrest them, we don’t wait until after the civil process has been conducted to seize the dirty money. So assets are the same as a suspect? Can I bail out my money? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2771 "2015-05-22T15:36:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Can I bail out my money? If it was acquired illegally, it was never “your money” to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2772 "2015-05-22T15:42:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If it was acquired illegally, it was never “your money” to begin with. Since we are extending your ridiculous analogy, the legality of my money is determined by a judge. In the mean time, it is presumed innocent, entitled to due process, and eligible for bail pending prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2773 "2015-05-22T15:49:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Since we are extending your ridiculous analogy, the legality of my money is determined by a judge. In the mean time, it is presumed innocent, entitled to due process, and eligible for bail pending prosecution. Well, no, because objects, unlike persons, do not enjoy a Constitutional presumption of innocence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2774 "2015-05-22T15:51:23Z")
No. According to the Constitution, property cannot be seized without due process. Since it was seized all fair and square and legal-like, you have to go to court to get it back. Which causes me to wonder, has anyone, ever, gotten their stuff back? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2775 "2015-05-22T16:01:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, no, because objects, unlike persons, do not enjoy a Constitutional presumption of innocence. So this was just nonsense you threw out to hand-wave the injustice of taking someone’s money because it might be tainted: > [@Smapti](#): > > But just as we don’t wait until after someone is convicted of murder to arrest them, we don’t wait until after the civil process has been conducted to seize the dirty money. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2776 "2015-05-22T16:02:45Z")
Wait a minute, I thought money was speech. Doesn’t the seizure violate the 1st amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2777 "2015-05-22T16:12:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No. According to the Constitution, property cannot be seized without due process. Since it was seized all fair and square and legal-like, you have to go to court to get it back. Which causes me to wonder, has anyone, ever, gotten their stuff back? No, but then their stuff was no angel. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2778 "2015-05-22T16:16:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So this was just nonsense you threw out to hand-wave the injustice of taking someone’s money because it might be tainted: What “injustice”? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2779 "2015-05-22T16:17:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, no, because objects, unlike persons, do not enjoy a Constitutional presumption of innocence. So…following this train of reasoning, I could make an anonymous phone call to the police station stating that you’ve been selling drugs for years and they could, in turn, seize your house, car, and bank accounts because Suspicion! You’d be okay with that, right? Perfectly constitutional? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/2780 "2015-05-22T16:20:06Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > So…following this train of reasoning, I could make an anonymous phone call to the police station stating that you’ve been selling drugs for years and they could, in turn, seize your house, car, and bank accounts because Suspicion! > > You’d be okay with that, right? Perfectly constitutional? Assuming you actually intended to do such a thing, your documented public declaration of your intent to make false statements to the police would be pretty solid evidence I could use to fight the seizure in court, as well as landing you in some pretty hot water to boot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=138) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=140)