# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 152
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3021 "2015-05-28T19:06:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Accidental discharge of a weapon during a struggle” != “murderous cop”. What an utter fucking moron you are. Even when the actual physical evidence refutes his claim, you _still_ believe the constable’s story. Shooting blindly into a room is grossly irresponsible, that guy should not be allowed near a blunt letter opener, much less a firearm. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3022 "2015-05-28T19:07:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What would you do if you were the child’s parent? Grieved, you fucking asshole, grieved. You keep pretending there was something wrong the poor child did that got him killed, when what got him killed was a nervous cop on the edge. There is no solution to this problem-only death. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3023 "2015-05-28T19:12:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is no solution to this problem-only death. So your solution is to throw your hands up in defeat and declare it inevitable that your child will be killed by the police. I choose to seek a better path. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3024 "2015-05-28T19:13:34Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Shooting blindly into a room is grossly irresponsible Which it was not proven that he _did_. Why do you choose to believe the prosecutors’ side of the story despite any corroborating evidence? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3025 "2015-05-28T19:16:13Z")
God, **Smapti** , your continual lies and goal-post shifting are pathetic. If you really believe this stuff why do you have to lie about it so damn often? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3026 "2015-05-28T19:19:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > God, **Smapti** , your continual lies and goal-post shifting are pathetic. I’ve done no such thing. Is it also _your_ belief that the best advice you can give your children is “Someday, the police will murder you and there’s nothing you can do to stop it”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3027 "2015-05-28T19:22:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So your solution is to throw your hands up in defeat and declare it inevitable that your child will be killed by the police. > > I choose to seek a better path. Your “better path” is a police state with just as many(if not many more) dead civilians, and no questions being asked. The advice you just gave in the Rice situation was to ignore what the police say and make movements contrary to their instructions, which probably would have yielded the same deadly results in the 2 seconds given the child. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3028 "2015-05-28T19:25:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve done no such thing. > > Is it also _your_ belief that the best advice you can give your children is “Someday, the police will murder you and there’s nothing you can do to stop it”? Lies again, dickwad. We are saying that no advice in this particular situation would have stopped Officer Itchy Triggerfinger from gunning down that child. Doing exactly what the officer said got the child gunned down. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3029 "2015-05-28T19:25:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve done no such thing. > > Is it also _your_ belief that the best advice you can give your children is “Someday, the police will murder you and there’s nothing you can do to stop it”? Can we stipulate the following: 1- The toy gun was in the boy’s pants 2- The police told him to drop the gun Based on the above, your advice to drop to the ground and put your hands behind your head is nonsensical. It ISN’T what the cop said to do. There’s no reason to think he wasn’t trying to comply by reaching for the toy in order to drop it. Why is this so hard to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3030 "2015-05-28T19:29:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Lies again, dickwad. We are saying that no advice in this particular situation would have stopped Officer Itchy Triggerfinger from gunning down that child. Then we can rest assured that the officer will be found guilty of manslaughter. Inform me as to when that happens, as, per your insistence, it inevitably shall. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3031 "2015-05-28T19:32:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then we can rest assured that the officer will be found guilty of manslaughter. > > Inform me as to when that happens, as, per your insistence, it inevitably shall. I never insisted any such thing, you lying shitwad. Quote me, you lying shitwad. I quote you all the time when you lie, you lying shitwad. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3032 "2015-05-28T19:33:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I never insisted any such thing, you lying shitwad. Quote me, you lying shitwad. I quote you all the time when you lie, you lying shitwad. …So you’re saying you’ve never quoted me? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3033 "2015-05-28T19:33:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then we can rest assured that the officer will be found guilty of manslaughter. We don’t share your confidence that the justice system is actual fair and reasonable in these matters, considering its history with regards to the treatment of black people. And you do lie, repeatedly. You lied when you said that if the boy had obeyed the cops he would be alive – even now you’re admitting that he should _not_ have followed the cops’ instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3034 "2015-05-28T19:38:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And you do lie, repeatedly. You lied when you said that if the boy had obeyed the cops he would be alive – even now you’re admitting that he should _not_ have followed the cops’ instructions. [Ahem.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice#The_shooting) > [@](#): > > According to Loehmann and Garmback, the officers arrived at the park, approached Rice and ordered him to hold up his hands at which point Rice reached in his waistband and one of the officers fired two shots, fatally hitting Rice once in the torso. I will confess that I erred; the specific instruction was “put your hands up”, not “drop the gun”. It matters little; instead of obeying the officers, he chose to grab for the gun and he paid the price. Do you continue to insist that if he had put his hands up, the cops would have shot him anyway because they were just that rarein’ to go to kill theyselves a black person? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3035 "2015-05-28T19:39:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > …So you’re saying you’ve never quoted me? I think the shit you use for brains is leaking into your ears and blocking your hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3036 "2015-05-28T19:41:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think the shit you use for brains is leaking into your ears and blocking your hearing. I think you’ve become too emotional to examine this on an objective, fact-based level. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3037 "2015-05-28T19:45:22Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Can we stipulate the following: > 1- The toy gun was in the boy’s pants > 2- The police told him to drop the gun No, you can’t stipulate either of those things, because they are both false. There was no _toy_ gun - Airsoft guns are not by any reasonable definition toys - and he was not told to drop the gun, I’ve no idea who started saying that but there’s no evidence for it. What _did_ happen, according to the reports, is that Rice was told to freeze, and instead reached for his (reported as, and looked like, real) gun. Now tell me exactly why, in that situation, it was wrong to shoot him. _Any_ reasonable person would have felt their life was at risk at that moment. All this thread is doing is proving just how many unreasonable people there are on this board when it comes to expecting the police to just stand there and be shot. As for the idiotic “police state” comments, a state where you are expected to do what the police say and seek remedy in court later if your rights have been breached or you have been harmed is _not_ a police state. Neither is one where elected officials control the police, and juries of citizens decide whether, in the case of a killing, the killer should face charges and be convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3038 "2015-05-28T19:48:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your “better path” is a police state with just as many(if not many more) dead civilians, and no questions being asked. My better path is _no_ dead civilians, because people who don’t deserve to die shouldn’t be fighting the police in a scenario where they can’t win. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3039 "2015-05-28T19:50:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [Ahem.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice#The_shooting) > > I will confess that I erred; the specific instruction was “put your hands up”, not “drop the gun”. It matters little; instead of obeying the officers, he chose to grab for the gun and he paid the price. > > Do you continue to insist that if he had put his hands up, the cops would have shot him anyway because they were just that rarein’ to go to kill theyselves a black person? Yep, that was the officer’s story. The video tells a revised story, though: > [@same link](#): > > A surveillance video without audio of the shooting was released by police on November 26 after pressure from the public and Rice’s family.[16] It showed Rice pacing around the park, occasionally extending his right arm with what could be a gun in his hand, talking on a cellphone, and sitting at a picnic table in a gazebo. The video shows the officers’ patrol car pulling up beside the gazebo. Rice then appears to move his right hand toward his waist. Loehmann then gets out of the patrol car and shoots him from a distance of less than 10 feet (3.0 m) So we don’t know what, if anything, was said, and he wasn’t reaching into his waistband, but towards his waist. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3040 "2015-05-28T19:54:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I think you’ve become too emotional to examine this on an objective, fact-based level. Fact: a cute 12 year old kid was playing at a local park when the police drove up and shot him, then watched him die. ETA: anyone who can read that and _not_ become emotional should bow out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=151) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=153)