# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 153
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3041 "2015-05-28T19:56:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I think you’ve become too emotional to examine this on an objective, fact-based level. This from the guy incapable of examining anything related to police and authority on an objective, fact-based level. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3042 "2015-05-28T19:59:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Fact: a cute 12 year old kid was playing at a local park when the police drove up and shot him, then watched him die. > > ETA: anyone who can read that and _not_ become emotional should bow out. Anyone whose immediate response to that is emotion and rage is not qualified to render an objective judgment as to whether what happened was justified. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3043 "2015-05-28T20:03:44Z")
Just so readers of this thread get maximum chuckles from **Smapti** ’s cognition, here’s his post from the “Congratulations Nebraska” thread: > [@Congratulations to the Nebraska legislature (mostly conservative Republicans)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-to-the-nebraska-legislature-mostly-conservative-republicans/721044/25): > > Those who choose not to kill tend to end up getting killed. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3044 "2015-05-28T20:04:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Anyone whose immediate response to that is emotion and rage is not qualified to render an objective judgment as to whether what happened was justified. Who said anything about rage? I remember crying when I first read the details of Tamir’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3045 "2015-05-28T20:07:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Who said anything about rage? I remember crying when I first read the details of Tamir’s murder. That you call it murder just shows your lack of rationality. I just hope you’re never on a jury, or otherwise allowed to decide whether someone’s actions are reasonable or legal. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3046 "2015-05-28T20:16:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That you call it murder just shows your lack of rationality. I just hope you’re never on a jury, or otherwise allowed to decide whether someone’s actions are reasonable or legal. Meh, change murder to killing if you’d like. Kid’s dead, right? Killed by a cop, right? ETA: a reasonable cop. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3047 "2015-05-28T20:20:57Z")
If Tamir doesn’t have a stone yet, may I suggest “Here lies Tamir Rice. Shot down while playing in the park at the age of 12 by a reasonable cop. Shoulda heeded Smapti. RIP”. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3048 "2015-05-28T20:29:55Z")
Reaching for a gun when confronted by a cop is not “playing”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3049 "2015-05-28T20:34:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Reaching for a gun when confronted by a cop is not “playing”. Can you cretins even keep two thoughts in your head simultaneously? Did Tamir think his toy gun was loaded? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3050 "2015-05-28T20:38:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Reaching for a gun when confronted by a cop is not “playing”. Even if we go with that, up until that time he was playing. At the park. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3051 "2015-05-28T20:40:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Reaching for a gun when confronted by a cop is not “playing”. Depends on what the cop said. Let’s hear the audio. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3052 "2015-05-28T20:47:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Can you cretins even keep two thoughts in your head simultaneously? Did Tamir think his toy gun was loaded? Irrelevant. Was it reasonable for the cop to think it might be loaded? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3053 "2015-05-28T20:52:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Irrelevant. Was it reasonable for the cop to think it might be loaded? That particular trigger-happy cop, who may or may not have shouted something at a child while rushing and shooting at him? If he was deliberately trying to get that child to panic, he couldn’t have done a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3054 "2015-05-28T20:56:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That particular trigger-happy cop, who may or may not have shouted something at a child while rushing and shooting at him? If he was deliberately trying to get that child to panic, he couldn’t have done a better job. Yes, obviously that cop. Are there any other ones who’s opinion at that moment is relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3055 "2015-05-28T21:15:42Z")
_What the cop said, if he said anything, is not irrelevant._ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3056 "2015-05-28T21:29:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _What the cop said, if he said anything, is not irrelevant._ Steophan insists that Jordan Davis was a “thug” who got what he deserved and that Michael Dunn, the man convicted of murdering him, is an innocent man who’s been victimized by the American Justice system. Of course he’s going to defend the cops who shot Tamir Rice. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3057 "2015-05-28T21:35:23Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Steophan insists that Jordan Davis was a “thug” who got what he deserved and that Michael Dunn, the man convicted of murdering him, is an innocent man who’s been victimized by the American Justice system. Nope, I’ve repeatedly said that Dunn is guilty and belongs in jail. Try again, idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3058 "2015-05-28T21:42:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _What the cop said, if he said anything, is not irrelevant._ Well, kinda. If the cop specifically said “reach for your weapon” then shot him, you might have a case for murder. But, absent that, and based solely on the video, there’s clear reasonable doubt that it was anything other than justified self defence. There’s no doubt the cop was mistaken about Rice’s intent. But a mistake isn’t - can’t be - murder, and if it was a reasonable mistake to make, it’s not any sort of crime. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3059 "2015-05-28T22:07:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You are, quite literally, and by a wide margin, the single worst person I have ever encountered on the Straight Dope. You’ve obviously been ignoring all my posts… ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3060 "2015-05-28T22:37:43Z")
There have been a couple studies that show people have a hard time accurately judging the age of black children, and estimate them older by 4-5 years. Not that I am excusing anything about the Tamir Rice case, but it is possible the cops judged him older than 12. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=152) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=154)