# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 159
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3161 "2015-06-01T08:09:34Z")
Public defender discovers Orange County (Ca.) police and prosecutors office colluding to set up jail-house snitches (the better to railroad defendants) then cover up the fact that they set it up. (Article describes what that’s all about.) It’s been going on since forever and everyone knew it and everyone knew that everyone knew it. What’s new is that the public defender actually managed to document it in a way that the judge couldn’t ignore. Judge was pissed, and ordered the _entire_ Orange County prosecutors office (all 250 prosecutors there) off the case. (It was the penalty phase for a multiple murderer who had already pleaded guilty.) Article hints that the actions _might_ rise to the level of perjury and obstruction of justice on the part of the prosecutors who were on this case. But doesn’t give any explanation why it doesn’t _certainly_ rise to the level of perjury and obstruction. [**You’re All Out** A defense attorney uncovers a brazen scheme to manipulate evidence, and prosecutors and police finally get caught](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/05/orange_county_prosecutor_misconduct_judge_goethals_takes_district_attorney.html), Dahlia Lithwick, Slate, May 28, 2015. > [@](#): > > Prosecutorial and police misconduct are often dismissed as just a few bad apples doing a few bad apple-ish things. But what happens when it’s entrenched and systemic and goes unchecked for years? That looks to be the case in Orange County, California, where the situation got so completely out of hand this spring that Superior Court Judge Thomas Goethals [issued an order disqualifying the entire Orange County District Attorney’s Office](http://www.latimes.com/local/orangecounty/la-me-jailhouse-snitch-20150313-story.html) (that’s all 250 prosecutors) from continuing to prosecute a major death penalty case. (Article includes photo of judge listening to arguments. Worth a look just to see the expression on his face!) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3162 "2015-06-01T08:46:42Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So, just a run of the mill asshole. Not even an interesting asshole, just some nugget-crusted ring. I mean look at what he has been doing all over this thread. He makes **adaher** look like some kind of rocket surgeon. **Steophan** ’s comprehension of the world is so simplistic, it thinks non-prosecutability equates with innocence. I suppose it thinks Al Capone was a law-abiding citizen who just made a mistake on his taxes. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3163 "2015-06-01T08:53:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **Steophan** ’s comprehension of the world is so simplistic, it thinks … it … Oops. My choice of personal pronoun may seem rude. I guess my subconscious assumes **Steophan** and **Smapti** must be bots programmed to imitate rednecks with defective cognition. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3164 "2015-06-01T09:11:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not a good family movie, too much Saxon violence. True, but for those with discerning minds who can send the children out of the room, it illustrates the power of a small mind’s denial. Steophan learned everything he knows from his Black Knight twin. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3165 "2015-06-01T14:55:07Z")
[Meanwhile, back in Baltimore: a ball biting cop.](http://www.wbaltv.com/news/police-anne-arundel-county-police-officer-bites-mans-testicles/32841400) Seems an off-duty cop was repeatedly hitting on a woman at a bar, and her fellow repeatedly asked the cop to stop. in an alley the cop jumped the fellow, but got his ass kicked, so he bit the guy’s nuts while the guy was sitting on him. With such high quality officer on the force, it’s no wonder that Baltimore is not a safe place. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3166 "2015-06-01T15:12:41Z")
Sitting on him? That’s obviously an excessive use of force. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3167 "2015-06-01T15:20:05Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [Meanwhile, back in Baltimore: a ball biting cop.](http://www.wbaltv.com/news/police-anne-arundel-county-police-officer-bites-mans-testicles/32841400) > > Seems an off-duty cop was repeatedly hitting on a woman at a bar, and her fellow repeatedly asked the cop to stop. in an alley the cop jumped the fellow, but got his ass kicked, so he bit the guy’s nuts while the guy was sitting on him. With such high quality officer on the force, it’s no wonder that Baltimore is not a safe place. Nitpick. The cop was a member of the Anne Arundel County police force. Anne Arundel is a county due south of Baltimore, along the western shore of the Chesapeake, and includes the city of Annapolis. It’s a separate entity from Baltimore City. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3168 "2015-06-01T16:06:23Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Public defender discovers Orange County (Ca.) police and prosecutors office colluding to set up jail-house snitches (the better to railroad defendants) then cover up the fact that they set it up…(Article includes photo of judge listening to arguments. Worth a look just to see the expression on his face!) The collusion and cooperation between prosecutors and police is almost another story, but almost the same story. Just for starters, we need to make sure that potential jurors are made aware of the truly wretched record, how many times the accused has suddenly and sincerely opened up and confessed the whole crime to some asshole in the cell next to him. With astonishingly precise details. I saw the same article, but debated whether or not to post it here in this thread. If this sort of hand in glove behavior is typical…well, _fuck_! Not so much a question of how many people in our prisons are innocent, but how many could not have been convicted without such bullshit procedures. As well as how many jailhouse informants are getting a pass on crimes they actually committed. Its rotten. The only questions are how rotten, how deep, and how long. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3169 "2015-06-01T16:12:04Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Sitting on him? That’s obviously an excessive use of force. It should be obvious, but I’ll be glad to help your widely scattered brain cells comprehend this. In one instance, a citizen was handcuffed and legcuffed with several cops on top of him, murdering him by suffocation. In the other case, a citizen was assaulted by a cop and outfought him, winding up on top of him and the cop was neither handcuffed nor legcuffed and the cop was not harmed. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3170 "2015-06-01T16:19:21Z")
One thing I’ve learned in this thread is that police are held to a much lower standard than civilians. At least by some folks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3171 "2015-06-01T16:23:26Z")
These “standards” of which you speak… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3172 "2015-06-01T16:33:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It should be obvious, but I’ll be glad to help your widely scattered brain cells comprehend this. In one instance, a citizen was handcuffed and legcuffed with several cops on top of him, murdering him by suffocation. In the other case, a citizen was assaulted by a cop and outfought him, winding up on top of him and the cop was neither handcuffed nor legcuffed and the cop was not harmed. In once case, someone was fighting, and was sat on as a means of restraining them. In the other, someone was fighting, and was sat on as a means of restraining them. Same thing. With one exception - the cops were doing their job when restraining him, unlike the other guy. Both, however, did what seems to have been necessary at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3173 "2015-06-01T17:34:04Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > In once case, someone was fighting, and was sat on as a means of restraining them. In the other, someone was fighting, and was sat on as a means of restraining them. Same thing. With one exception - the cops were doing their job when restraining him, unlike the other guy. Both, however, did what seems to have been necessary at the time. If he was cuffed at the legs and hands and on his face, why did they need to sit on him? Were they afraid he’d flop away? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3174 "2015-06-01T17:35:36Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > In once case, someone was fighting, and was sat on as a means of restraining them. In the other, someone was fighting, and was sat on as a means of restraining them. Same thing. With one exception - the cops were doing their job when restraining him, unlike the other guy. Both, however, did what seems to have been necessary at the time. Can you explain why it’s necessary to sit on a man who is handcuffed and legcuffed? What threat does he pose in that situation? Have you ever tried to breathe when you’re lying face down with a 265 lb man sitting on your back? Nothing about that sets off your brutality alarm? Or don’t you have one, you just paraphrase Nixon and postulate that if the cops do it, it’s legal? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3175 "2015-06-01T18:46:38Z")
Just came across this one: [Denver Sheriff Whistleblower: ’I Was Ordered To Destroy Videotape’](http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/05/29/denver-sheriff-whistleblower-i-was-ordered-to-destroy-videotape/) > [@](#): > > CBS4 has learned that an internal investigation is underway into the interim head of the Denver Sheriff Department, Elias Diggins, and the captain in charge of the Denver Sheriff’s Internal Affairs Bureau after an internal affairs investigator blew the whistle, saying he was ordered to destroy a videotape that showed an inmate being humiliated and degraded. Seems very much in the initial stages at this point. Plaintiff seems very sure his allegations can be backed up, so maybe something will come of it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3176 "2015-06-01T19:17:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Can you explain why it’s necessary to sit on a man who is handcuffed and legcuffed? What threat does he pose in that situation? Have you ever tried to breathe when you’re lying face down with a 265 lb man sitting on your back? Nothing about that sets off your brutality alarm? Or don’t you have one, you just paraphrase Nixon and postulate that if the cops do it, it’s legal? What threat does a man who’s shown he’s violent, is known to be high on cocaine, is continuing to resist, and is able to both kick and headbutt, at minimum, the police? Are you fucking serious? And I’m not saying if the cops do it it’s legal, I’m saying that it’s been investigated, and members of the public who saw the evidence found no probable cause of wrongdoing. I see no reason to disagree. What makes you think he was no threat to the police? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3177 "2015-06-01T19:28:21Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > in an alley the cop jumped the fellow, but got his ass kicked, so he bit the guy’s nuts while the guy was sitting on him. With such high quality officer on the force, it’s no wonder that Baltimore is not a safe place. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Can you explain why it’s necessary to sit on a man who is handcuffed and legcuffed? What threat does he pose in that situation? Well, there you have it. When a cop sits on a civilian, the cop is in the wrong. And when a civilian sits on a cop, the cop is _still_ in the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3178 "2015-06-01T19:35:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, there you have it. When a cop sits on a civilian, the cop is in the wrong. Of course, you conveniently leave out that, in the instance you’re referring to, the civilian in question was already cuffed. That’s important, no? > [@Smapti](#): > > And when a civilian sits on a cop, the cop is _still_ in the wrong. The civilian in the Baltimore case was not really sitting on a cop; he was sitting on a drunk and aggressive civilian who had just assaulted him in a public place. They didn’t find out until later that the drunk asshole was also a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3179 "2015-06-01T19:45:54Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > That’s important, no? No. No it really, really isn’t, unless your agenda is to show that the cops _must_ have been doing something wrong, despite the fact that the evidence doesn’t show that. Can someone _please_ explain what, exactly, is wrong with the police continuing to restrain someone that, despite being cuffed, continued to resist? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3180 "2015-06-01T20:09:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, there you have it. When a cop sits on a civilian, the cop is in the wrong. > > And when a civilian sits on a cop, the cop is _still_ in the wrong. You and I come from very different backgrounds. Where I come from, attacking a person and then biting his nuts is a crime, and there is no exception just because it is a cop who was the attacker/biter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=158) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=160)