# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 161
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3201 "2015-06-02T10:07:12Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > His arms and legs were restrained. What’s he gonna do, crawl away at high speed ? Yes. Yes, that’s exactly what they were worried about :smack: Learn to fucking read. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3202 "2015-06-02T10:17:56Z")
Learn to fucking **think**. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3203 "2015-06-02T10:22:26Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Learn to fucking **think**. I can think, that’s why I’m not swallowing the ridiculous party line that the police are always wrong, and that violent, drugged up criminals aren’t a risk to anyone. But maybe you can help me with something I’m struggling to think about. There’s a violent, drugged up criminal who’s been hand and leg cuffed, but is still violent and resisting. How best should the police restrain him, at minimal risk to either him or the officers? The only answer anyone’s come up with so far is “don’t bother, just leave him there”, which is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3204 "2015-06-02T11:08:55Z")
I don’t think they’re always in the wrong. So far, to you, they’ve always been in the right however. So allow me to doubt your ability to think critically. You still haven’t explained, precisely, what the point of further restraining him would be. He’s shackled. He’s not going anywhere, police sitting on him or not. He’s certainly not threatening anybody in this position. Furthermore, the arrest itself seems to have been effected without much of a struggle : the guy put his hands up, the cops didn’t have to fire a taser at him. Where you’re pulling the “violent and resisting” from, I have no idea. You seem to be assuming that, because four cops crushed him, he musta been. Why would you make that assumption ? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3205 "2015-06-02T11:22:24Z")
And was he resisting? Or trying to breathe? I imagine it may be a natural impulse as your being suffocated to death to try to affect a change in the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3206 "2015-06-02T11:43:35Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > He’s certainly not threatening anybody in this position. This is the false claim you keep repeating. You can’t be certain of that, you are simply choosing to disbelieve the cops who say he was a threat on principle. They needed to further restrain him because the level of restraint they used wasn’t sufficient. Even after he was sat on, he continued to struggle. What, I ask again in the vain hope of a sensible answer, _should_ they have done to successfully restrain him? And please, for fuck’s sake, stop asking stupid questions like “why should the police be restraining violent people who are high on crack”. It’s their job, that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3207 "2015-06-02T11:55:01Z")
When a cop shouts “Freeze”, then breathing constitutes resisting arrest, so lethal force is required to ensure compliance. What’s so difficult to understand about that? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3208 "2015-06-02T11:57:36Z")
The fellow had halitosis, so the cops feared for their own safety, necessitating their snuffing him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3209 "2015-06-02T12:00:16Z")
> [@](#): > > … “why should the police be restraining violent people who are high on crack”. … The articles cited say that cocaine was detected in his system the day before, May 1. I see no mention of any such on the day in question. Advise. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3210 "2015-06-02T12:15:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The articles cited say that cocaine was detected in his system the day before, May 1. I see no mention of any such on the day in question. Advise. The autopsy said the cocaine contributed to his death, and he was reportedly agitated and appeared to be hallucinating. Maybe he was just pretending to be high. Doesn’t really change the question of how he should have been restrained, if the cuffs weren’t doing the job. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3211 "2015-06-02T12:24:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Doesn’t really change the question of how he should have been restrained, if the cuffs weren’t doing the job. A wet sheet? Psych consult and sedation? Patiently wait for him to tire? On second thought, those options all take too long. Kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3212 "2015-06-02T14:03:33Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > This is the false claim you keep repeating. You can’t be certain of that, you are simply choosing to disbelieve the cops who say he was a threat on principle. I’m using common fucking sense. And the cops never made that claim that I’m aware of. > [@](#): > > They needed to further restrain him because the level of restraint they used wasn’t sufficient Sufficient for WHAT ?! > [@](#): > > Even after he was sat on, he continued to struggle. Cite ? > [@](#): > > What, I ask again in the vain hope of a sensible answer, _should_ they have done to successfully restrain him? And please, for fuck’s sake, stop asking stupid questions like “why should the police be restraining violent people who are high on crack”. It’s their job, that’s why. I’ve already answered. Stand away and wait for the EMTs, or for him to calm down on his own. Dunno about you, but I don’t need to be high to panic when crushed by four dudes. But again, why do you keep asserting he was violent or struggling ? There’s no such allegation in the article. Believe it or not, crack does not turn one into the Hulk, or Wolverine. “High” and “violent” are two different words, you see. The article states he put his hands up and dutifully froze when ordered to. That’s neither violent nor resisting behaviour. His refusal to get down on the ground might have suggested he might have tried to leg it, but that possibility had been dealt with with the leg cuffs. I’ll ask again, why do you so \*need \*that guy to have been a bloodcrazed maniac ? Question your assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3213 "2015-06-02T14:47:28Z")
Police caught lying and covering up again: [Photo Raises Doubts About Police Shooting of Jermaine McBean](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-shooting-jermaine-mcbean-florida-headphones-n366386) > [@](#): > > After Florida police shot Jermaine McBean to death as he walked home with an unloaded air rifle, they said there was no reason to believe he did not hear their orders to drop the weapon and that he pointed it at them. > > But a newly emerged photo that shows headphones in McBean’s ears immediately after the 2013 shooting raises questions about the police version of events, including why the white earbuds were later found stuffed in the dead computer expert’s pocket. > > And another aspect of the police account is also being contradicted — by a man who called 911 in alarm when he saw McBean walking around with the air rifle but who also says McBean never pointed it at police or anyone else. What we really need is for the good cops to stop covering for the bad cops. Should start charging them all with conspiracy. Maybe self-preservation will do the job where morals failed. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3214 "2015-06-02T15:02:40Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > [Photo Raises Doubts About Police Shooting of Jermaine McBean](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-shooting-jermaine-mcbean-florida-headphones-n366386) **Steophampti** : Without Googling, what odds do you lay on Mr. McBean’s skin color? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3215 "2015-06-02T15:02:45Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > What we really need is for the good cops to stop covering for the bad cops. I would argue that “good cops” by definition do not cover for bad cops. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3216 "2015-06-02T15:51:14Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I would argue that “good cops” by definition do not cover for bad cops. And I would argue that that _is_ the definition of “good cop” in the U.S. today-a cop that is not directly involved in wrongdoing, but won’t lift a finger to stop it if he sees it. The type of “good cop” you would like to see is openly despised in most large police departments. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3217 "2015-06-02T16:04:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The type of “good cop” you would like to see is openly despised in most large police departments. See [Frank Serpico](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Serpico) who still (allegedly) receives death threats from the NYPD. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3218 "2015-06-02T18:11:16Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > What we really need is for the good cops to stop covering for the bad cops. Should start charging them all with conspiracy. Maybe self-preservation will do the job where morals failed. Word. That’s the best way to change the cop culture. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3219 "2015-06-02T18:14:22Z")
I discovered the truth about Steophan and his comical sidekick, Smapti. They’re Russian [**state-backed “deceivers”**](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1) operating out of the Internet Research Institute in St. Petersburg. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3220 "2015-06-02T18:15:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Dunno about you, but I don’t need to be high to panic when crushed by four dudes. Panic during suffocation = non-compliance, which justifies suffocation being used to ensure compliance. There’s logic for ya! :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=160) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=162)