# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 165
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3281 "2015-06-05T19:11:36Z")
[New York cop to be fired for pepper-spraying and attacking driver who flipped him off](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/new-york-cop-to-be-fired-for-pepper-spraying-and-attacking-driver-who-flipped-him-off/). So that’s one bad apple that may have to find a new place to be paid to be a dick. There’s video at that link, too. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3282 "2015-06-05T19:38:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Oh okay; so as long as it’s there’s a law, no one should get upset about the law? Is that your position? No. Perhaps if you’d bothered to read the post you just quoted, you’d understand my position. If someone acts within the law, don’t get upset about their actions - _do_, if you feel that people shouldn’t be allowed to act that way, use your power to change the law. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3283 "2015-06-05T19:54:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. Perhaps if you’d bothered to read the post you just quoted, you’d understand my position. If someone acts within the law, don’t get upset about their actions - _do_, if you feel that people shouldn’t be allowed to act that way, use your power to change the law. But you said that people should not get upset with things that happen that are within the law. If no one is upset, there will be no effort to change the law. In fact, expressing outrage and eliciting dialogue and demonstrating and protesting are all part of the process of trying to change the law. Yet you seem to feel that no one should get upset if something that happens is legal, no matter how unjust, cruel, or arbitrary. So if people shouldn’t get upset because something is declared to be “legal”, how would anyone every have the motivation to engage the rest of the public in an effort to sway more people to their point of view? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3284 "2015-06-05T19:59:35Z")
Do you really not understand the distinction between being upset at the event and being upset at the law that allows it? It’s really simple. A cop kills someone, legally, and you think their action was wrong. Bad way to respond - call for them to be arrested or otherwise punished for their action. Good way to respond - change the law so it doesn’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3285 "2015-06-05T20:04:12Z")
An off-duty officer was present during (and apparently the victim of) a robbery attempt, but he managed to shoot and kill one of the perps. Thing is, this sentence in the story make me wonder if the officer was justified: [ > [@](#): > > Chief Inspector Scott Small says one suspect fired what proved to be blanks from close range before the detective returned fire. ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3a1a312b0ea7475a9585f343ca0c44a8/duty-cop-getting-takeout-stops-robbery-1-suspect-dead](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3a1a312b0ea7475a9585f343ca0c44a8/duty-cop-getting-takeout-stops-robbery-1-suspect-dead)) I admit that, for me, there aren’t enough details to fully form an opinion, but then, that’s why the thread is about “controversial encounters”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3286 "2015-06-05T20:08:53Z")
How was he supposed to know they were blanks? They don’t make a little “Bang!” flag appear, you know. Sounds more like either suicide-by-cop, guy not knowing crap about guns getting ripped off/set up, or a really strange set of morals. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3287 "2015-06-05T20:26:53Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > How was he supposed to know they were blanks? They don’t make a little “Bang!” flag appear, you know. Agreed. If the report is accurate, this is justified. Nothing controversial in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3288 "2015-06-05T20:37:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > An off-duty officer was present during (and apparently the victim of) a robbery attempt, but he managed to shoot and kill one of the perps. Thing is, this sentence in the story make me wonder if the officer was justified: > [url=[http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3a1a312b0ea7475a9585f343ca0c44a8/duty-cop-getting-takeout-stops-robbery-1-suspect-dead](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3a1a312b0ea7475a9585f343ca0c44a8/duty-cop-getting-takeout-stops-robbery-1-suspect-dead)] I admit that, for me, there aren’t enough details to fully form an opinion, but then, that’s why the thread is about “controversial encounters”, right? Are there _any_ circumstances in which you’ll accept that a cop is justified in shooting? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3289 "2015-06-05T21:11:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are there _any_ circumstances in which you’ll accept that a cop is justified in shooting? Suicide. Heh, jk ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3290 "2015-06-05T21:26:00Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > How was he supposed to know they were blanks? They don’t make a little “Bang!” flag appear, you know. Yeah, that one seems pretty legit to me. There is plenty of “I a-feared for my life and thought his pack of breath mints was an assault chainsaw” bullshit out there, but a guy shooting blanks at you is prett-y easy to “mistake” for a guy plain shooting at you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3291 "2015-06-05T21:50:09Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are there _any_ circumstances in which you’ll accept that a cop is justified in shooting? There are and I’ve written in support of the police on these boards when I felt they deserved it. So far, I’ve yet to see a single instance where you decried any police violence, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3292 "2015-06-05T22:44:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So far, I’ve yet to see a single instance where you decried any police violence, tho. Couple of reasons for that. Firstly, a lot of the times the police use force it’s justified, in my opinion. And secondly, in the event that it isn’t, there will almost certainly be plenty of people here decrying it already, and I’m not prone to pointless “me too!” posts. The guy who was buggered with a broom handle some years ago would be an example of it, though. Find me instances of the police launching an unprovoked attack on an innocent person, and I’ll be sure to condemn them. But all this “The cops were restraining a violent, drugged up habitual criminal! How dare they?!” bullshit that’s going on is fucking ridiculous. Yes, it would be better if the idiots who threaten cops with guns or continue to resist after being restrained didn’t die, but I’m not going to cry for anyone that stupid. Whatever their age. ---
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3293 "2015-06-05T23:40:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Injured pride? Repetitive strain injury, index finger, right hand. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3294 "2015-06-06T00:19:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, it would be better if the idiots who threaten cops with guns or continue to resist after being restrained didn’t die, Just a note: This means you’re in substantial agreement with the people you’re arguing against. That you believe the abovequoted, yet advocate for no (indeed seem to advocate against any) measures to actually bring about the better state you’ve described, marks you as fundamentally irrational (or hypocritical) on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3295 "2015-06-06T00:20:17Z")
[Caught on Video: Cop Pepper Sprays Man For Giving Him the Finger](http://wnyt.com/article/stories/s3816389.shtml) He has been suspended without pay, and his boss is working on firing him. Yay. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3296 "2015-06-06T00:39:11Z")
[You’re 14 posts late](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18416904&postcount=3281), **monstro**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3297 "2015-06-06T00:43:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > People need to stop getting worked up over legal killings. Ya know, I’m generally conservative, but I can’t stand stupidity. I’ve given up on following this thread in all its stupidity, so I may have missed this: I asked this question of **Smapti** , and now I ask of **Steophan** , what’s your response when the cops come for you? Some cops just pick you out for a beating because they don’t like you? Somewhere in history I believe there’s a quote for this. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3298 "2015-06-06T00:45:19Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Just a note: This means you’re in substantial agreement with the people you’re arguing against. > > That you believe the abovequoted, yet advocate for no (indeed seem to advocate against any) measures to actually bring about the better state you’ve described, marks you as fundamentally irrational (or hypocritical) on this topic. I’ve repeatedly advocated the use of body cams to ensure that any inquiry into what’s happen has actual facts, not hearsay and rumour, to work with. Also, I believe proper mental health treatment is required so the police aren’t the ones left dealing with mentally ill people Combine those with people respecting rather than resisting the police and you’ll be in a much better situation very quickly. But what I refuse to do, unlike those who are arguing against me, is let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just look at the problems in Baltimore now the police are being prevented from doing their jobs to see how bad that can be. I will slightly rephrase the statement you quoted, though. It would be better, _all other things being equal,_ if the idiots who threaten cops with guns or continue to resist after being restrained didn’t die. If the cost of ensuring that it _never_ happens is more murders and an incapacitated police force, then it’s not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3299 "2015-06-06T00:52:09Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Some cops just pick you out for a beating because they don’t like you? That would fit into the exceptional circumstances where resistance would be legitimate, as they’re not acting as cops when they do that. It would still be _fucking stupid_ to resist, though. After that, it would depend on how “random” it truly was. If I were a criminal, and the beating had been instead of an arrest, I’d get on with my life. If it was truly a random, untargeted attack, I’d do what I could to get them punished - contact politicians, press, civil rights groups, whatever else I could Google up to do. Serious question - how many people who aren’t criminals do you think the police pick out and beat in western countries? As I said in my previous post, _of course_ it would be better if the police didn’t do this to anyone. But not at the cost of effective policing. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3300 "2015-06-06T02:39:00Z")
So slaveowners were all good guys, because slavery was legal at the time, so no one should condemn them? On another note, [video of police shooting released.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/03/1390285/-Shocking-new-video-shows-unarmed-Utah-man-was-listening-to-headphones-when-killed-by-police) Note there will be, at this point, no further investigation or prosecution, because the DA has already decided that the officer in question reasonably believed his life in danger. Given that, you be the judge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=164) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=166)