# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 168
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3341 "2015-06-08T07:47:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > InThe guy grabbed his own waist area - not the police officer’s. Ah. FTR, the gif explode page, FWIW, shows the purple shirted with his hand at his waistband behind his back - invisible to the cop. 2 frames. I have no idea what his friend waving the light blue shirt thought he was up to. The purple shirted guy may have been warding him off. Sobering stuff. I say that failure to deescalate the situation imposed unnecessary risks on both the police and the public. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3342 "2015-06-08T08:32:09Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > Can you appreciate that a great many people with perspectives and experiences different to your own are indeed horrified for the very reasons you describe? No, no I can’t. Because it’s not happening, and experiences that only occur in someone’s mind aren’t relevant. The police are not executing anybody. That’s simple fact. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3343 "2015-06-08T09:38:34Z")
Fair enough. It was wrong of me to indulge in hyperbole. The situation seems horrible enough without doing so. I agree, it’s unlikely that cops are actually “executing people for petty crimes, or for their skin colour.” But as **Richard Parker** suggested, if you replace “executing” with “arresting”, and then observe that a not insignificant number of those apprehend end up dead under questionable circumstances, surely you can see why a great many folks might feel outraged, even if you yourself are not? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3344 "2015-06-08T09:51:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ve answered those questions repeatedly. I’m assuming the “flop around” comments are jokes, and you realise that someone who’s cuffed hand and foot would still be able to kick or bite someone nearby, and at least attempt to stand up - with a far greater danger of falling than someone not cuffed. > > How should the police have restrained him to prevent those things? A question I’ve been asking for days, and (for some reason\*) no-one’s answered. > > \*The reason is not a mystery… No, you haven’t answered those questions, even now. A person who is hand and legcuffed would not be able to bite or kick anyone if they moved away from him; why would they not move away from him? Really, why not? And the chances of such a person injuring themselves are ridiculously low - it really is practically impossible to get to your feet in that situation. Besides, since you think it’s OK for a cop to suffocate someone to death by sitting on them I find it hard to believe you’re really concerned about the suspect injuring themselves. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3345 "2015-06-08T09:58:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I think the more avoidable error was that the cop created the whole chaotic scene by his own actions. He was alternately ordering people to sit or disperse, willy-nilly. He randomly arrested a bunch of kids who didn’t disperse (or didn’t sit where he told them). All to impose more control on a scene of…nothing. There was no ongoing crime or threats to physical safety. At some point he was just imposing control for control sake. > He should have been trying to calm the scene down, and realized he wasn’t going to calm things down by arresting a bunch of people arbitrarily. From the audio, it seems he was pissed that he wasn’t being sufficiently respected, and he didn’t handle it like an adult. And then, once highly agitated, he opted to arrest this girl because she was “running her mouth” and not dispersing fast enough. All of that could have been avoided if treated the scene like a place where a bunch of teenagers were hanging out and maybe there had been a fight–like this colleagues clearly were–instead of like a ranger running into a riot. YES! watch the full vid on youtube, one of the officers was totally out of control! Before even engaging anyone he is running and does a goddamn roll on the ground like in his own mind he was in a fucking action movie. He created the situation, his fellow officers should have dealt with him but they didn’t. Then at the end he just starts attacking verbally and arresting random members of the crowd and onlookers, 90% of whom he engages with are black and likely not even related to the original group. He needs to be fired and put in a job to his abilities, which may not be as high as flipping burgers. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3346 "2015-06-08T10:05:47Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I admit that was a pretty good barrel roll. Those who have taken certain martial arts know that rolling properly can prevent injury. Yeah, everyone should have had their papers I guess. Teen me probably would have. Plenty of my white friends would not in a similar situation. Fuck that noise, why the hell should they carry their “papers”? Cops don’t have the right to randomly request to see papers in the USA, and more citizens need to start taking up this fight. If you’re talking about some kind of pool pass, nothing I have seen so far indicates any of the suspects had forced their way into a pool. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3347 "2015-06-08T10:11:57Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Fusion: Cops say folk weren’t obeying orders: [INDENT][INDENT]Among the police orders seen in the video are “Get your asses on the ground,” “On your face,” You can’t just scream at random citizens not breaking any law, and they weren’t because none were charged, to lay on and stick their face on the filthy ground. No one is going to comply, my wife who normally hates my cop obsession said she’d rather be shot than stick her face on the ground when she isn’t breaking a law. So if the cops in McKinney think ordering a crowd of people to stick their face to the ground is going to get compliance, they are creating their own incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3348 "2015-06-08T10:44:35Z")
She’d be breaking a law by not sticking her face on the ground. Your lies about the cops not being allowed to ask people to prove they’re entitled to be on private land, or to make those suspected of trespass lay prone, make you part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3349 "2015-06-08T10:50:18Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > No, you haven’t answered those questions, even now. A person who is hand and legcuffed would not be able to bite or kick anyone if they moved away from him; why would they not move away from him? Really, why not? Their job is to restrain and arrest him, not tie him up and leave him there. If you seriously want the cops to shackle people then leave them in the middle of the road, you’re an even bigger moron that most here. > [@](#): > > And the chances of such a person injuring themselves are ridiculously low - it really is practically impossible to get to your feet in that situation. Besides, since you think it’s OK for a cop to suffocate someone to death by sitting on them I find it hard to believe you’re really concerned about the suspect injuring themselves. Yes, it’s difficult to stand in that position, that’s why it’s so fucking dangerous. Answer this, since no-one else can be bothered to - would you be fine with the police’s action if they cuffed him and left him there, then when attempting to stand he fell forward and broke his head? Being unable, of course, to stop his fall due to being cuffed hand foot. That situation is so obviously more dangerous that sitting on someone that it’s absurd we’re arguing about it. The _only_ reason the cop continued to sit on him is that he continued to resist, and that’s a safe place to be, away from flailing legs or headbutts. Notice when they got off him? When he stopped screaming and thrashing around. Had he done that in the first place, he would have been unharmed. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3350 "2015-06-08T10:54:37Z")
The McKinney (Texas) situation was caused by non-members visiting a private community swimming pool. Comments indicate that _such non-member visits were quite common_ at the pool. Yet these particular teens were singled out for abuse; cops arrived, brandishing handcuffs, etc. I ask our bots, Smapti and Steophan, if they can guess why the cops were called on these particular teens? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3351 "2015-06-08T10:57:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The McKinney (Texas) situation was caused by non-members visiting a private community swimming pool. Comments indicate that _such non-member visits were quite common_ at the pool. Yet these particular teens were singled out for abuse; cops arrived, brandishing handcuffs, etc. > > I ask our bots, Smapti and Steophan, if they can guess why the cops were called on these particular teens? Because there were many more than normal, who weren’t invited by the residents. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3352 "2015-06-08T10:59:16Z")
> [@grude](#): > > YES! watch the full vid on youtube, one of the officers was totally out of control! Before even engaging anyone he is running and does a goddamn roll on the ground like in his own mind he was in a fucking action movie. [This is a screenshot](http://i.imgur.com/E0SeJ8a.png) of the officer in question’s personal YouTube playlist (that is now private). So, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3353 "2015-06-08T11:05:50Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > She’d be breaking a law by not sticking her face on the ground. Your lies about the cops not being allowed to ask people to prove they’re entitled to be on private land, or to make those suspected of trespass lay prone, make you part of the problem. I’m glad to be part of the “problem”. So Steophan you’re in public and a cop suddenly screams at you to put your face on the ground and you’d do it? I can’t even process mentally what someone says to me if it is unexpected, I often have to say huh so they repeat it so I can understand what they even said. To expect people to instantly comply with an order they aren’t expecting and have no reason to expect is ridiculous and unrealistic. And would you please cite where police in the US have the right to demand ID from someone, and then arrest them because they don’t have it? What are these papers? Again I’m not sure what the claim in this case is, that the teens forced their way into a private pool that requires passes and refused to leave when requested by the agent of the owners so the police were called? So why weren’t they charged with trespass then? I’ll say right here I do not support the teens if that is what happened, but I’m having to piece this together from blog comments. And it still didn’t justify how action hero cop treated yellow bikini girl or incited the crowd. IF these kids forced their way into a private pool without passes, that was wrong and I don’t support it. But a smart cop would have not told them all to leave, then once they are outside the gate start screaming at them. They were contained inside the pool gate, ask them in there duh! This case is mostly about police incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3354 "2015-06-08T11:23:33Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Their job is to restrain and arrest him, not tie him up and leave him there. If you seriously want the cops to shackle people then leave them in the middle of the road, you’re an even bigger moron that most here. > > Yes, it’s difficult to stand in that position, that’s why it’s so fucking dangerous. Answer this, since no-one else can be bothered to - would you be fine with the police’s action if they cuffed him and left him there, then when attempting to stand he fell forward and broke his head? Is there some middle option which has been excluded? Could the guy get bound and then NOT abandoned? Couldn’t the cop have stayed but just NOT sat on him? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3355 "2015-06-08T11:28:34Z")
No, I don’t think it was police incompetence. No-one was hurt, some petty criminals were made to stop what they were doing and got a bit of a scare. If they’ve got any sense, they’ll learn to respect people’s property and the law from this - but only if people like you stop pretending that the kids and not the police were the wrongdoers here. Why were they not arrested? Because there was no need for it, presumably. A one-off minor issue doesn’t require that. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3356 "2015-06-08T11:29:47Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Is there some middle option which has been excluded? > Could the guy get bound and then NOT abandoned? > Couldn’t the cop have stayed but just NOT sat on him? Sitting on him is the fucking middle ground. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3357 "2015-06-08T11:42:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Sitting on him is the fucking middle ground. Your “middle ground” killed him. If for some reason it was critically important that he not be allowed to get up, they could have accomplished this quite safely enough by having one guy put some, but not all, of his weight on the guy’s ass. If he used his hands for this task, the guy would have lived and the cop would probably have enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3358 "2015-06-08T11:42:38Z")
The feminist movement beginning in the 1970s pulled the lid off molestation and incest: “Yes, girls are being raped everywhere, and it’s NOT just a handful of perverts”. Now with ubiquitous video the lid is being pulled off police brutality: “Yes, people and especially minorities are being brutalized by the police, and it’s NOT just cop’s word against perp’s”. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3359 "2015-06-08T11:56:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Sitting on him is the fucking middle ground. I “four guys crushed him until he was dead” is the middle ground when arresting a non-resisting, unarmed suspect ; I shudder at the thought of what constitutes the upper ground. Does it involve a blowtorch, pliers and medievalness ? A tactical nuke from low orbit ? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3360 "2015-06-08T12:17:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Because there were many more than normal, who weren’t invited by the residents. 😕 :smack: You must be talking about a different incident. I referred [to this one](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-police-clash-teens-pool-party-about-race-says-girl-who-recorded-video/). > [@](#): > > “I honestly believe it was about race because mostly they did nothing to the Caucasians,” 13-year-old Jahda Bakari said. > > Twelve officers responded to a disturbance call at a community pool in McKinney, Texas, where teenagers were celebrating the end of the school year. Most of the residents in the Dallas suburb are white, but many of the teen partygoers were black. > > In the video, which has been viewed more than 2.5 million times online, one officer can be seen dragging a young girl, clad only in a bikini, to the ground. > > … > > Bakari said she lives nearby and has a pool pass and so did many of her friends. > > “They were acting like we were criminals,” she said. “We were just there for a pool party.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=167) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=169)