# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 170
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3381 "2015-06-08T16:16:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > While fellatio is a common practice amongst gay men, it is also relatively common amongst unmarried straight women. **Steophan**. Please clear this up for the “enlightened progressives”. Male or female? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3382 "2015-06-08T16:17:17Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > yeah… sure… let’s go with that. You honestly don’t see that it’s about an exaggerated version of ass-kissing rather than a slam about homosexuals? ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3383 "2015-06-08T16:22:36Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > You honestly don’t see that it’s about an exaggerated version of ass-kissing rather than a slam about homosexuals? So what? What does that have to do with anything? Good g-d you people are fucking wrecked. It was a shitty thing to say in 2015. This board spends pages and pages and hamster after hamster trying to stop pejoratives and the standard using a minority to insult someone. This was done here. Fuck, move on. It’s ok. It doesn’t invalidate the overall point to say this was a shitty thing to say and move on. There is no need to defend this shit in order to keep the line straight. Fuck you guys could use some anti-Borg treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3384 "2015-06-08T16:25:08Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > So what? What does that have to do with anything? Good g-d you people are fucking wrecked. It was a shitty thing to say in 2015. > > This board spends pages and pages and hamster after hamster trying to stop pejoratives and the standard using a minority to insult someone. This was done here. Fuck, move on. It’s ok. It doesn’t invalidate the overall point to say this was a shitty thing to say and move on. There is no need to defend this shit in order to keep the line straight. Fuck you guys could use some anti-Borg treatment. Your turning it into an anti-gay insult has far more to do with you than the board. And your doubling down on the “sheeeeple!” rhetoric isn’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3385 "2015-06-08T16:26:17Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Your turning it into an anti-gay insult has far more to do with you than the board. And your doubling down on the “sheeeeple!” rhetoric isn’t helping. Not a fucking chance counselor. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3386 "2015-06-08T16:32:45Z")
What, perzackly, is the dreadful thing you think he is trying to accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3387 "2015-06-08T17:53:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What, perzackly, is the dreadful thing you think he is trying to accomplish? Communist subversion? Since it involves precious bodily fluids and all. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3388 "2015-06-08T17:59:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, I don’t think it was police incompetence. No-one was hurt, **some petty criminals were made to stop what they were doing** and got a bit of a scare. If they’ve got any sense, they’ll learn to respect people’s property and the law from this - but only if people like you stop pretending that the kids and not the police were the wrongdoers here. > > Why were they not arrested? Because there was no need for it, presumably. A one-off minor issue doesn’t require that. (bolding mine) Do you have a cite for the bolded part? Or are you just applying that label, and all it’s negative connotations, on your own? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3389 "2015-06-08T18:06:02Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not sure what point you’re trying to make here. By isolating on the time when the purple shirt guy’s hand is obscured and not the time immediately before or after are you saying this evidence isn’t despositive? I don’t believe you can conclude the hand behind the back was invisible to the cop from the video. > > My take is that the biggest outrage is a result of the gun draw. I think it was reasonable. Do you? My take is that the biggest outrage is over the way the cop handled the girl. He was not alone in facing those half naked teenagers, there were a lot of other cops there with him. How was it reasonable for him to threaten them with lethal force? He was not in danger of being overrun. He was just upset that these kids did not “respeck mah authoriteh” They should just put a whites only sign up at the pool and avoid these problems in the future. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3390 "2015-06-08T18:07:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 :smack: You must be talking about a different incident. I referred [to this one](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-police-clash-teens-pool-party-about-race-says-girl-who-recorded-video/). [One of the officers involved has been suspended.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/07/mckinney-police-pool-party_n_7530164.html) > [@](#): > > A Texas police officer has been suspended pending the outcome of an investigation after video surfaced showing one cop pulling a gun on a crowd of teens at a pool party while others handcuffed teenage partygoers. > > Police on Friday evening were called to the Craig Ranch North Community Pool in McKinney, roughly 40 miles north of Dallas. McKinney police said in a statement they were responding to a disturbance “involving multiple juveniles at the location, who do not live in the area or have permission to be there, refusing to leave,” and that some of them were fighting. Which was not true, BTW. [One of the girls attacked was not only a resident, but an organizer of the party.](http://shine.forharriet.com/2015/06/19-year-old-woman-attacked-at-mckinney.html#axzz3cTHIKH9c) And [it was two white women who started the “fighting”.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/07/texas-pool-party_n_7530502.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013) > [@](#): > > A white woman at the pool started making racist comments, Thomas said, such as telling black teens at the party to get used to the bars outside the pool because that’s all they were going to see. > > Grace Stone, 14, who is white, told BuzzFeed News that she and friends objected to an adult woman making racist comments to other teens at the party and that the woman turned violent. > > This is when, according to Thomas, a 19-year-old black woman told the belligerent white woman to stop fighting with the teenagers. The white woman called the black woman a “young bitch,” then walked up to her. After the young woman said her age out loud, the older woman punched her in the face. Another unidentified white woman jumped in as well before Thomas, who was recording the incident, and his friends went to break it up. > > It was after this incident that the cops showed up and “started cursing and yelling at us,” Thomas said. He described an officer manhandling a young girl, as shown in this video embedded above. Those two white women are the only ones who should have been arrested or cuffed in this incident, but I see nothing to indicate that they were; maybe they were. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3391 "2015-06-08T18:11:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > (bolding mine) > > Do you have a cite for the bolded part? Or are you just applying that label, and all it’s negative connotations, on your own? He is assuming these kids were trespassing. He doesn’t not seem to realize that the girl that was tackled to the ground had a pool pass. If that was my daughter, I would financially ruin that cop for the rest of his life and get such a large judgment against that police department and governing jurisdiction that they would have to double tax rates to pay for it. I would sue the homeowners association for so much that their insurance rates would quadruple overnight. I can’t believe people are trying to excuse this sort of behavior. I realize that these kids are black so cops are fully justified in doing whatever they want but they are unarmed and half naked. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3392 "2015-06-08T18:30:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > My take is that the biggest outrage is over the way the cop handled the girl. > > He was not alone in facing those half naked teenagers, there were a lot of other cops there with him. How was it reasonable for him to threaten them with lethal force? He was not in danger of being overrun. He was just upset that these kids did not “respeck mah authoriteh” > > They should just put a whites only sign up at the pool and avoid these problems in the future. Ok, then focus on the treatment of the girl in question. The officer in question verbally told the group and that girl specifically to leave the area and disperse. Was that a lawful command? If it was, and she didn’t, then arresting her was fine. She was clearly resisting so putting her to the ground was fine too. Not every situation that inovolves the police using force is unjustified. There are plenty of situations of bad behavior by police out there. I’m not seeing this as one of them. Edit to add: it was reasonable to threaten the two males who approached the police officer rapidly while he was attempting to detain the girl because they were potential threats surrounding the officer with unknown hand gestures toward their waists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3393 "2015-06-08T18:44:09Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Ok, then focus on the treatment of the girl in question. The officer in question verbally told the group and that girl specifically to leave the area and disperse. Was that a lawful command? If it was, and she didn’t, then arresting her was fine. She was clearly resisting so putting her to the ground was fine too. I don’t know whether or not it was a lawful command to order residents off their own community property but its kind of hard to obey one set of commands telling you to leave and another set of commands saying “get over here so I can arrest you” In either event it is not necessary or appropriate for a full grown man to handle a half naked 14 year old girl like that. If it was not a lawful command and the girl had every right to stand there and yell at the cop all day long, then was the cop’s behavior simply aggravated assault and should he be sent to jail for assault? > [@](#): > > Not every situation that inovolves the police using force is unjustified. There are plenty of situations of bad behavior by police out there. I’m not seeing this as one of them. Not every situation that involves police use of force is **justified**. There are plenty of situations of \*\*good \*\*behavior by police out there. I’m not seeing this as one of them. Our opinions seem diametrically opposed in this point. > [@](#): > > Edit to add: it was reasonable to threaten the two males who approached the police officer rapidly while he was attempting to detain the girl because they were potential threats surrounding the officer with unknown hand gestures toward their waists. What unknown hand gestures towards their waists? They were wearing swimming trunks. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3394 "2015-06-08T18:45:06Z")
I agree that for the girl the critical question would be the legality of her arrest, but I think she’s got a decent claim there. First, I wouldn’t be so sure that it was a lawful order. Police generally have the power to control a scene, but they don’t have the power to order people to leave a public place just because they are observing police conduct or “running their mouths” as the officer says. Assuming this was a public sidewalk, as it appeared to be, the fact that the girls were already 20 or so feet from whatever legitimate thing the officer thought he was doing makes it a pretty gray area as to whether the order was lawful. And second, he appears to have been motivated by the fact of her “running her mouth”–which is of course constitutionally protected conduct. If the arrest was motivated by retaliation for that conduct, then it doesn’t matter if it would otherwise have been lawful. Is there some other obvious reason why he singled her out from the two or three other girls he had arbitrarily ordered to disperse from a public place? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3395 "2015-06-08T18:47:52Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > So what? What does that have to do with anything? Good g-d you people are fucking wrecked. It was a shitty thing to say in 2015. > > This board spends pages and pages and hamster after hamster trying to stop pejoratives and the standard using a minority to insult someone. This was done here. Fuck, move on. It’s ok. It doesn’t invalidate the overall point to say this was a shitty thing to say and move on. There is no need to defend this shit in order to keep the line straight. Fuck you guys could use some anti-Borg treatment. Ever see someone tell two posters “god get a room you two” or “god stop riding his dick”? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3396 "2015-06-08T18:58:22Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Ok, then focus on the treatment of the girl in question. The officer in question verbally told the group and that girl specifically to leave the area and disperse. Was that a lawful command? The cops were telling them to leave while also telling them to get on the ground, face down. And did you see them chasing after the kids _who were running away from them_? They created a clusterfuck by issuing contradictory commands, none of which made any sense. So who cares if any of that craziness was lawful? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3397 "2015-06-08T19:01:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What unknown hand gestures towards their waists? They were wearing swimming trunks. 😕 Toy water pistols are not unheard of at swimming pools; the boys could have been packing. Since black boys are notoriously envied for their endowment, the pistols could have been “hiding” in plain sight! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3398 "2015-06-08T19:02:05Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > **Steophan**. Please clear this up for the “enlightened progressives”. Male or female? Either. But I prefer to get to know them first, rather than borrowing some unidentified genitalia. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3399 "2015-06-08T19:02:34Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > So what? What does that have to do with anything? Good g-d you people are fucking wrecked. It was a shitty thing to say in 2015. > > This board spends pages and pages and hamster after hamster trying to stop pejoratives and the standard using a minority to insult someone. This was done here. Fuck, move on. It’s ok. It doesn’t invalidate the overall point to say this was a shitty thing to say and move on. There is no need to defend this shit in order to keep the line straight. Fuck you guys could use some anti-Borg treatment. Speaking as a fag, you’re really over-reacting to an insult that was very clearly unrelated to sexual orientation. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3400 "2015-06-08T19:05:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know whether or not it was a lawful command to order residents off their own community property but its kind of hard to obey one set of commands telling you to leave and another set of commands saying “get over here so I can arrest you” Do you really believe that’s what happened? [Look at the video.](https://youtu.be/R46-XTqXkzE?t=2m24s) At 2:22 the cop tells the group of 6 people to leave. He indicates this is a repeated command that probably happened earlier that I didn’t catch. Between that time mark, and at 2:46 he tells the group 8 times to leave. At 2:51 he decides to arrest the girl in the yellow bikini for something. It looks like it was for not dispersing as ordered. I could see the reason being interpreted as her mouthing off to the officer, but I cant tell what is said. > [@](#): > > In either event it is not necessary or appropriate for a full grown man to handle a half naked 14 year old girl like that. Is it relevant that that the police officer is a man in this scenario? Woulda female police officer taking the same action be less objectionable, more, or the same? Does the girl’s state of clothing make a difference here? She was resisting. He escalated force to detain her. He could have tased her I guess but that didn’t seem necessary. > [@](#): > > If it was not a lawful command and the girl had every right to stand there and yell at the cop all day long, then was the cop’s behavior simply aggravated assault and should he be sent to jail for assault? If it was not a lawful command then he’d probably be dealt with administrativley. He would pretty clearly enjoy qualified immunity in this situation. > [@](#): > > What unknown hand gestures towards their waists? They were wearing swimming trunks. At 3:11 in the video I linked, the purple shirt wearing guy has both his hands at his own waist area after rapidly approaching the officer trying to detain the girl. Purple shirt guy’s left leg extends toward the officer. He’s possibly 3 feet away from him at that point. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > First, I wouldn’t be so sure that it was a lawful order. Police generally have the power to control a scene, but they don’t have the power to order people to leave a public place just because they are observing police conduct or “running their mouths” as the officer says. Police have the power to control the scene, at times that can extend to public places like sidewalks, etc. That could extend to ordering people to leave public places they may otherwise have a right to be in. I don’t think there is a hard and fast rule as to the distance that must exist between bystanders and police activity, but from the video the scenario appeared pretty out of hand with a mix of involved and not involved people mulling about haphazardly. I mean, that same girl that later gets arrested (yellow bikini) is seen strolling between the same officer and other groups of people who had already been ordered to the ground (1:20). The whole scenario was not in control at the beginning. As to why that girl was singled out, I have no idea. The audio isn’t clear for me at that point in the video. Bad luck on her part maybe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=169) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=171)