# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 171
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3401 "2015-06-08T19:07:03Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The cops were telling them to leave while also telling them to get on the ground, face down. And did you see them chasing after the kids _who were running away from them_? They created a clusterfuck by issuing contradictory commands, none of which made any sense. So who cares if any of that craziness was lawful? No. The cop told that group of folks to leave 8 times before he started arresting the girl in question. His commands were not contradictory. It really does matter whether or not those were lawful commands. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3402 "2015-06-08T19:11:31Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Police have the power to control the scene, at times that can extend to public places like sidewalks, etc. That could extend to ordering people to leave public places they may otherwise have a right to be in. Indeed, as I expressly acknowledged in my post. The issue is the scope of that power, as you also acknowledge. It’s obviously a contextual inquiry, but it’s not clear to me that the order to disperse which she did not comply with was a lawful order as directed to her in those circumstances. You don’t just get to say, “everyone go home.” You get to order people back a reasonable distance as necessary to maintain control over the scene. I think that one would probably go to a fact-finder, and given the video, I wouldn’t be shocked if they found against the cop. > [@Bone](#): > > As to why that girl was singled out, I have no idea. The audio isn’t clear for me at that point in the video. Bad luck on her part maybe. The officer is pretty clearly heard to say something about what will happen if she keeps running her mouth. Maybe there was some other intervening event, but based on what we know, there’s at least a prime facie case for it being a retaliatory address (again, wholly apart from whether it would have been valid apart from any retaliatory motivation). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3403 "2015-06-08T19:31:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No. The cop told that group of folks to leave 8 times before he started arresting the girl in question. His commands were not contradictory. It really does matter whether or not those were lawful commands. The girl obeyed when the cop came up her and screamed for them to leave. She responded by leaving the sidewalk where the boys were, giving him enough space to do his job. Knowing how people in public spaces are, she probably chose her distance based on what the dozens of others were doing. His priorities were screwed up if he was more concerned with sending people home than investigating whatever it was that summoned them there. It’s not like she was interfering with his ability to manage the situation, because there was no situation to manage at that point. When he went up to her and dragged her to the ground, he created conflict where that had been none. He poured gasoline on an isolated brush fire that would have otherwise died out. Judging by the other cop’s demeanor, you would have thought Rambo Cop was responding to a completely different call. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3404 "2015-06-08T19:36:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The girl obeyed when the cop came up her and screamed for them to leave. So are you walking back this part: > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The cops were telling them to leave while also telling them to get on the ground, face down. Whether or not the group of people dispersed quick enough, or far enough, I think is a critical question. But your earlier statement that the cop told them to leave while telling them to get on the ground face down was in error. He told that group of people 8 times to leave. A wise person would leave before that point, and definitley not verbally engage the cop in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3405 "2015-06-08T19:58:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > … It really does matter whether or not those were lawful commands. That is an extraordinary contention, and, as such, requires at least _some_ substantiation. Quite a bit, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3406 "2015-06-08T20:04:49Z")
I think you may have misread the quoted matter, ' **luci**. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3407 "2015-06-08T20:07:01Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Whether or not the group of people dispersed quick enough, or far enough, I think is a critical question. But your earlier statement that the cop told them to leave while telling them to get on the ground face down was in error. Did you see the several boys parked on the grass and sidewalk? They wouldn’t have been there if he was truly interested in dispersing people. He was barking out orders all over the place like a mad man. His only goal–which is obvious to everyone except you–was to bully people with his power. > [@](#): > > He told that group of people 8 times to leave. A wise person would leave before that point, and definitley not verbally engage the cop in that scenario. Plenty of wise people took off running when he started acting crazy. He chased after them in crazy fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3408 "2015-06-08T20:16:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Did you see the several boys parked on the grass and sidewalk? They wouldn’t have been there if he was truly interested in dispersing people. He was barking out orders all over the place like a mad man. I think you’re having a problem separating the interaction with different groups of people. The boys parked on the grass towards the person taking the video had already been detained in that they were not free to leave. The fact that there were some people detained and others not detained does not indicate that the cop was not interested in dispersing people. It’s entirely reasonable to detain some folks, and disperse others. This is an obvious equivocation. Does this mean you’re sticking to your assertion that the cop was _‘telling them to leave while also telling them to get on the ground, face down.’_? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3409 "2015-06-08T20:17:02Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Ok, then focus on the treatment of the girl in question. The officer in question verbally told the group and that girl specifically to leave the area and disperse. Was that a lawful command? It was certainly not a command he had any business giving. It was her party. The teens were her invited guests. He should have given that order **only** to the white people who were the **only** ones on the scene making any trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3410 "2015-06-08T20:21:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It was certainly not a command he had any business giving. It was her party. The teens were her invited guests. He should have given that order **only** to the white people who were the **only** ones on the scene making any trouble. How very racist of you. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3411 "2015-06-08T20:33:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > How very racist of you. :rolleyes: [Is it, now?](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-racism_is_a_codeword_for_anti-white) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3412 "2015-06-08T20:38:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: [Is it, now?](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-racism_is_a_codeword_for_anti-white) Not sure about anyone else, but your links are pretty worthless. I was hoping I could ignore more from Michael Lind. If you’re denying that your post was racist, there’s always this gem: > [@Why do liberals hate suburbs?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/645): > > IME, whenever a Doper posts “It’s not racist” or words to that effect, usually it is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3413 "2015-06-08T20:46:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not sure about anyone else, but your links are pretty worthless. I was hoping I could ignore more from Michael Lind. Not Lind. RationalWiki. RationalWiki is your friend. Read it, learn it, be it. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3414 "2015-06-08T21:03:18Z")
> [@grude](#): > > YES! watch the full vid on youtube, one of the officers was totally out of control! Before even engaging anyone he is running and does a goddamn roll on the ground like in his own mind he was in a fucking action movie. I’m convinced that most of his behavior after that ridiculous barrel roll was an attempt to save face. He was embarrassed at tripping over his own feet like a _Reno 911_ character while pursuing an unarmed kid in a swimsuit. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3415 "2015-06-08T21:53:13Z")
For context: [Here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk)girl who organized the party. [Here’s](http://cw33.com/2015/06/08/15-year-old-who-shot-mckinney-pool-party-video-speaks-out/#ooid=ByaDFrdTpafiZZnNzVKWju7zDgLmPqXH) the kid who shot the video. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3416 "2015-06-08T22:16:47Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > [Here’s](http://cw33.com/2015/06/08/15-year-old-who-shot-mckinney-pool-party-video-speaks-out/#ooid=ByaDFrdTpafiZZnNzVKWju7zDgLmPqXH) the kid who shot the video. > [@](#): > > “I was one of the only white people in the area when that was happening. You can see in part of the video where he tells us to sit down, and he kinda like skips over me and tells all my African-American friends to go sit down.” Fifteen year old kid, but wise. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3417 "2015-06-08T23:15:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > RationalWiki is your friend. Read it, learn it, be it. Nonsense. RationalWiki is incredibly biased and should not be counted on for any information, let alone your attempts to pass it off as a reliable source. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3418 "2015-06-08T23:49:24Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I’m convinced that most of his behavior after that ridiculous barrel roll was an attempt to save face. He was embarrassed at tripping over his own feet like a _Reno 911_ character while pursuing an unarmed kid in a swimsuit. I don’t believe he tripped. From the video I saw, you can see him positioning his feet and dropping one shoulder even before he “falls”, in preparation for the roll. He was 100% being Action Jackson. But, honestly, this whole discussion is sort of pointless. He’s already been dropkicked from his job, with ample reason. What more do y’alls want ? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3419 "2015-06-09T00:17:25Z")
With so many conflicting statements I thought it might be possible the officer was justified in his actions. Then I saw, in the video, how he pulled out his gun, while kneeling on the girl, and waved it around at all the unarmed young people there. I lost any sympathy I had for him then, and think putting him on leave is the very least he should get. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3420 "2015-06-09T00:28:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It was certainly not a command he had any business giving. It was her party. The teens were her invited guests. He should have given that order **only** to the white people who were the **only** ones on the scene making any trouble. > [@Bone](#): > > How very racist of you. I am not seeing the racism. The two white women were (according to reports) the ones causing the trouble. How is it racist to point out that the cop should have addressed his ire toward the ones actually starting trouble? Instead of just rushing around and yelling at the black kids and waving his gun? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=170) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=172)