# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 172
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3421 "2015-06-09T00:40:15Z")
I just saw the video for Tough Guy and Bikini Girl. What a shame, that that community has lost the supreme crime fighting skills that Tough Guy brought to the force! What a fucking asshole, loser, part-of-the-problem-and-not-part-of-the-solution this jackass is. Way to jump all over Bikini Girl, Tough guy! ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3422 "2015-06-09T01:02:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t believe he tripped. From the video I saw, you can see him positioning his feet and dropping one shoulder even before he “falls”, in preparation for the roll. He was 100% being Action Jackson. > > But, honestly, this whole discussion is sort of pointless. He’s already been dropkicked from his job, with ample reason. What more do y’alls want ? What time stamp of the video do you see him dropping a shoulder before he falls such that leads you to believe his roll was intentional? He’s been suspended with pay pending an investigation. How confident are you that he won’t be reinstated with little to no penalty after the investigation? > [@raventhief](#): > > I am not seeing the racism. The two white women were (according to reports) the ones causing the trouble. How is it racist to point out that the cop should have addressed his ire toward the ones actually starting trouble? Instead of just rushing around and yelling at the black kids and waving his gun? According to BG, the fact that you’ve stated that it’s not racist, means that it probably is. No where in the video does the cop “wave his gun”. It doesn’t help your cause if you misstate what is obvious. Just like the initial news stories saying the cop drew his weapon on the girl. This is not what happened just as much as the cop “waving his gun” is not what happened. I don’t think the situation was handled optimally - but it seems reasonable to me. It’s the folks that make every scenario an occasion to be outraged that weakens the ire over legitimate police abuses. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3423 "2015-06-09T01:16:59Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What time stamp of the video do you see him dropping a shoulder before he falls such that leads you to believe his roll was intentional? > > He’s been suspended with pay pending an investigation. How confident are you that he won’t be reinstated with little to no penalty after the investigation? > > According to BG, the fact that you’ve stated that it’s not racist, means that it probably is. > > No where in the video does the cop “wave his gun”. It doesn’t help your cause if you misstate what is obvious. Just like the initial news stories saying the cop drew his weapon on the girl. This is not what happened just as much as the cop “waving his gun” is not what happened. > > I don’t think the situation was handled optimally - but it seems reasonable to me. It’s the folks that make every scenario an occasion to be outraged that weakens the ire over legitimate police abuses. You’re right. He didn’t wave the gun. He pulled it, and pointed it at some of the teens. Then he reholstered it. I apologize for mischaracterizing the incident. But I didn’t state that it wasn’t racist – I said i didn’t see the racism, and asked you why you said it was. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3424 "2015-06-09T01:18:05Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > … > > I don’t think the situation was handled optimally - but it seems reasonable to me. . Tough Guy thanks you! ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3425 "2015-06-09T02:00:40Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I don’t think the situation was handled optimally - but it seems reasonable to me. The situation was an adult woman fighting with a teenage girl. That’s what the police were called for. How did we get from that to this? The other officers seemed perfectly ok with being calm and asking questions. In other words, the _actual_ reasonable way to handle the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3426 "2015-06-09T02:12:44Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > But I didn’t state that it wasn’t racist – I said i didn’t see the racism, and asked you why you said it was. > [@Why do liberals hate suburbs?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/645): > > IME, whenever a Doper posts “It’s not racist” or words to that effect, usually it is. I said it was to mock BG. Because you know, racism. > [@bobot](#): > > Tough Guy thanks you! The cause for discourse weeps for you. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3427 "2015-06-09T02:26:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I said it was to mock BG. Because you know, racism. > > The cause for discourse weeps for you. Discourse? This is the BBQ Pit. Tough Guy sure showed 15 year old Bikini Girl who was boss, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3428 "2015-06-09T05:12:43Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not sure what point you’re trying to make here. The video wasn’t clear to me, so I attempted to view it frame by frame to work out what the heck happened. > [@](#): > > By isolating on the time when the purple shirt guy’s hand is obscured and not the time immediately before or after are you saying this evidence isn’t despositive? I don’t believe you can conclude the hand behind the back was invisible to the cop from the video. I’m not sure I’m parsing you right. I saw 2 frames where purple shirt’s body was between purple shirt’s left hand and Officer Loudmouth. I don’t know whether the cop was indeed reacting to that. Without reading the claims of Officer Loudmouth and testimony by witnesses, I wouldn’t want to form firm conclusions. (Note: I typically don’t like forming conclusions within the first 48-72 hours of a breaking story anyway. Most have different tendencies.) > [@](#): > > My take is that the biggest outrage is a result of the gun draw. I think it was reasonable. Do you? I’m not sure that’s the biggest outrage. I’m not comfortable answering your question as I’m unfamiliar with use of force rules in Texas or anywhere else for that matter. I understand that NYC cops draw their weapon about once per day though. I will say that I don’t currently see the gun draw as the largest outrage. (Also, I don’t find the idea that the barrel roll was intentional to be probable.) Though frankly, outrage isn’t really my take on this. I perceive an unacceptable level of racism and poor police practice in the video. I would like to see Officer Loudmouth fired and the police department review its procedures for handling out of control cops. The preponderance of the evidence suggests to me that Officer Loudmouth should not be involved with law enforcement. His behaviors put civilians and the police at risk. According to planetcory’s vids, some of the African Americans were in fact residents of that residential community. Witnesses say that a white woman assaulted a black girl. That crime should be investigated, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3429 "2015-06-09T08:30:05Z")
Not to be outdone by Dallas, [a Minneapolis cop detains teens for 45 minutes with no charges](http://cw33.com/2015/04/08/minneapolis-teen-told-because-i-feel-like-arresting-you-ill-break-your-leg/). The cop told the car’s driver that he was arresting him because he felt like it, and would break his legs if he tried to run. (Without peeking, guess the skin colors of cop and suspects.) The news story quotes an unidentified woman claiming that breaking legs is unconstitutional. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3430 "2015-06-09T09:57:49Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I’m convinced that most of his behavior after that ridiculous barrel roll was an attempt to save face. He was embarrassed at tripping over his own feet like a _Reno 911_ character while pursuing an unarmed kid in a swimsuit. Agreed. That really put it into another level. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3431 "2015-06-09T10:13:53Z")
[Former cop who shot and killed Walter Scott on video has been indicted](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/09/us/former-south-carolina-officer-is-indicted-in-death-of-walter-scott.html?contentCollection=BreakingNews&action=Click&contentID=35530306&pgtype=Blogs&_r=0) You know, I’m starting to feel like the protests may actually be working. But we shall wait and see if there’s a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3432 "2015-06-09T11:11:11Z")
I confess that a couple of days ago, when I first watched the video after reading a brief description, I gasped when that McKinney cop pulled his gun. It was a true, “oh no” moment for me. Glad no one was shot. Contrast that to the photo of the motorcycle gangsters sitting around joking and playing with their smart phones as the cop stood by with his automatic rifle, not even watching them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3433 "2015-06-09T11:11:42Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Not to be outdone by Dallas, [a Minneapolis cop detains teens for 45 minutes with no charges](http://cw33.com/2015/04/08/minneapolis-teen-told-because-i-feel-like-arresting-you-ill-break-your-leg/). The cop told the car’s driver that he was arresting him because he felt like it, and would break his legs if he tried to run. (Without peeking, guess the skin colors of cop and suspects.) > > The news story quotes an unidentified woman claiming that breaking legs is unconstitutional. Cite? Having unbroken legs is a privilege, not a right! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3434 "2015-06-09T13:14:11Z")
[I didn’t know this was an option](http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/09/us/tamir-rice-charges/): > [@](#): > > Activists, civil rights leaders and clergy in Cleveland, Ohio, plan to bypass prosecutors and ask a judge directly for murder charges against the two officers involved in the shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. > > The group plans to use citizens’ affidavits for probable cause, according to a media advisory sent Monday. The affidavits will be filed in Cleveland Municipal Court. Based on those filings, the group will then ask a judge to issue arrest warrants for Cleveland Division of Police Officers Frank Garmback and Timothy Loehmann. That approach, if it could have been used in Ferguson, would have avoided the problem of a killer getting off free solely because of prosecutorial abuse. **Elendil’s Heir** , if you’re not allowed to discuss this, we understand. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3435 "2015-06-09T13:43:11Z")
Congratulations, **Elvisl1ves** - you’ve found some people in Cleveland who are even dumber than you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3436 "2015-06-09T13:53:29Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The video wasn’t clear to me, so I attempted to view it frame by frame to work out what the heck happened. I’m not sure I’m parsing you right. I saw 2 frames where purple shirt’s body was between purple shirt’s left hand and Officer Loudmouth. I don’t know whether the cop was indeed reacting to that. By focusing only on two frames (I don’t know how much time that represents) you ignore the time immediately prior and after. I’m asking you if that is intentional to portray the action in a negative light. > [@](#): > > I will say that I don’t currently see the gun draw as the largest outrage. Okay. Without the gun draw I don’t think this is a story. It was the lead headline in all reports of the incident. If that’s not the largest outrage, what do you think is? > [@](#): > > Without reading the claims of Officer Loudmouth and testimony by witnesses, I wouldn’t want to form firm conclusions. (Note: I typically don’t like forming conclusions within the first 48-72 hours of a breaking story anyway. Most have different tendencies.) > > … > > I perceive an unacceptable level of racism and poor police practice in the video. I would like to see Officer Loudmouth fired and the police department review its procedures for handling out of control cops. The preponderance of the evidence suggests to me that Officer Loudmouth should not be involved with law enforcement. His behaviors put civilians and the police at risk. This seems unintentionally funny. First you don’t like to form conclusions. But you are comfortable concluding that the police in the video display unacceptable levels of racism, a particular individual should be fired, and his career in law enforcement ended. Do you think the officer was issuing lawful commands prior to detaining the yellow bikini girl? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3437 "2015-06-09T14:08:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Congratulations, **Elvisl1ves** - you’ve found some people in Cleveland who are even dumber than you. > > Regards, > Shodan Did you finally get promoted to fifth grade this year? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3438 "2015-06-09T14:15:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Nonsense. RationalWiki is incredibly biased . . . Only towards, you know, rationality. That harmonizes well with the Dope’s ignorance-fighting mission, does it not? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3439 "2015-06-09T14:18:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t believe he tripped. From the video I saw, you can see him positioning his feet and dropping one shoulder even before he “falls”, in preparation for the roll. He was 100% being Action Jackson. > > But, honestly, this whole discussion is sort of pointless. He’s already been dropkicked from his job, with ample reason. What more do y’alls want ? We want the RW-lawnorder crowd here to learn something and **stop defending** LEOs in **all** cases of controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians regardless of circumstances. Really, this particular case is such a cut-and-dried example of kneejerk racism and bad conduct that it boggles the mind they would ever even consider siding with the cops this time; but they appear to be psychologically incapable of doing anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3440 "2015-06-09T15:11:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Only towards, you know, rationality. That harmonizes well with the Dope’s ignorance-fighting mission, does it not? Again, nonsense. It’s the leftist version of Conservapedia, and should be given no more credence. The first ten or twenty times you linked to it, I read your links. After I had had enough of ridiculous claims and loaded words, I decided that RationalWiki is undependable and unreliable, and it is not worth trying to glean the facts from the hyperbole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=171) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=173)