# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 176
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3501 "2015-06-10T14:19:24Z")
> [@sich\_hinaufwinden](#): > > (Wish I could remember how to do the multi-nested-quotey thing.) Just nest the quote tags. Reply to a post that has nested quotes and you’ll see them. Has anyone acknowledged being the white woman who told those black kids to get back to Section 8? ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3502 "2015-06-10T15:30:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Just nest the quote tags. Reply to a post that has nested quotes and you’ll see them. > > Has anyone acknowledged being the white woman who told those black kids to get back to Section 8? Thanks for the tip. I’ve done it before I but was too tired late last night to spend time trying to figure it out. I will try again next time I need to. I haven’t seen if that woman has been identified yet, but it’s either out there or will be since I think she’s one of the people in the video of the fight before the police showed up . ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3503 "2015-06-10T16:09:37Z")
> [@sich\_hinaufwinden](#): > > (Wish I could remember how to do the multi-nested-quotey thing.) Example, multi-quote selection: [noparse] > [@Batman versus McGuyver](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-versus-mcguyver/281210/4): > > [/noparse] > my sensible observation [noparse] > [@Your Favorite Painting](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-painting/108333/1): > > [/noparse] > passive-aggressive lunacy Take the tag shown in red and move it above the other quote tag thusly: [noparse] > [@Your Favorite Painting](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-painting/108333/1): > > [/noparse] > [noparse] > > > [@Batman versus McGuyver](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/batman-versus-mcguyver/281210/4): > > > > [/noparse] > > my sensible observation > > passive-aggressive lunacy ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3504 "2015-06-10T16:12:30Z")
[The 5 worst responses to the McKinney pool story.](http://www.salon.com/2015/06/10/the_5_worst_responses_to_the_mckinney_pool_story_partner/) This one takes the chlorine-soggy cake: > [@](#): > > **5. The McKinney Fraternal Order of Police declared that the incident was not racial at all** > > Daniel Malenfant, lodge president of the McKinney Fraternal Order of Police of which Casebolt is a member said that, although they hadn’t examined the video yet, they knew that the situation was not motivated by race at all. "The McKinney FOP assures that this was not a racially motivated incident and can say without a shadow of a doubt that all members of the McKinney FOP and McKinney PD do not conduct racially biased policing,” Malenfant said in a statement. > > He also said that, while he doesn’t condone swearing at teenagers, sometimes it happens while cops are trying to “gain control of unruly subjects who are not complying with officer demands.” > > The FOP declaration that the incident was not racial ignores some crucial factors: there have been reports that the cops were called because white families were concerned there were too many black kids at the pool, the person who recorded the incident was white and remained unscathed, and white poolgoers reportedly hurled racial slurs at the pool party host. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3505 "2015-06-10T16:30:49Z")
Do you think the same about the black kid who was arrested saying it wasn’t a racial incident? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3506 "2015-06-10T16:58:13Z")
Bye bye [del]Officer[/del] Tough Guy. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3507 "2015-06-10T16:59:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Do you think the same about the black kid who was arrested saying it wasn’t a racial incident? So you believe the black kid who said it wasn’t racially motivated, but not the black kid who said it all started with racial slurs? Or the white kid who said it was like he was invisible - all around him kids were being detained but as the white guy with the camera he was ignored? I think it’s a fucked up issue, with a lot of different perspectives to it. The one kid who said it wasn’t racially motivated- his view is worthy of consideration. But so are the perspectives of the other people there. The FOP said it wasn’t at all a racial incident. I think it’s rather likely that they are wrong. Whether or not the police actions were racially motivated, I don’t know. But the roots of the incident itself? Yes, probably some “racially motivated” conflict there. ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3508 "2015-06-10T16:59:37Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Example, > multi-quote selection: > > quote=me;5639739] > my sensible observation > /quote] > > quote=rehada;2085751] > passive-aggressive lunacy > /quote] > > Take the tag shown in red and move it above the other quote tag thusly: > > quote=rehada;2085751] > quote=me;5639739] > my sensible observation > /quote] > > passive-aggressive lunacy > /quote] Thanks - it’s so simple now seeing it written out like that. And looking at the tags in this quote answers another question I was going to ask about how you got that text to not be in quote boxes. (Oddly though those tags mess up me trying to quote you. I had to select and copy your post from the “reading” screen and break all the internal tags. If I simply hit the quote button it only brings in a portion of your post.) Also, LOL, I see what you did ereht! ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3509 "2015-06-10T17:32:13Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So you believe the black kid who said it wasn’t racially motivated, but not the black kid who said it all started with racial slurs? Or the white kid who said it was like he was invisible - all around him kids were being detained but as the white guy with the camera he was ignored? > > I think it’s a fucked up issue, with a lot of different perspectives to it. The one kid who said it wasn’t racially motivated- his view is worthy of consideration. But so are the perspectives of the other people there. > > The FOP said it wasn’t at all a racial incident. I think it’s rather likely that they are wrong. Whether or not the police actions were racially motivated, I don’t know. But the roots of the incident itself? Yes, probably some “racially motivated” conflict there. This thread is about “Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians” - not about Controversial encounters between civilians themselves. Whether the white woman was really the initial instigator and said the things they say she did (and I have no problem believing that - I think she did), that should be the subject for a different thread. AFAIK, the police were called because of and responded to a large number of unauthorized people that were in or trying to get into a private pool and utterly overwhelming the security guard’s ability to deal with them. I thought this discussion was supposed to be about whether what the police did in their reponse was appropriate or not - and if not, was it racially motivated. One officer was clearly out of line, but was the overall general police response inapproriate and/or racially motivated? Well, different people have different opinions. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3510 "2015-06-10T17:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The FOP declaration that the incident was not racial ignores some crucial factors: there have been reports that the cops were called because white families were concerned there were too many black kids at the pool, the person who recorded the incident was white and remained unscathed, and white poolgoers reportedly hurled racial slurs at the pool party host. [/QUOTE] While I am dubious the police officer’s actions did not have an element of racial motivation to them, these particular arguments do not make a case for it at all. They make a case that other (and unnamed people) might have acted in a racially motivated way, but not the cop. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3511 "2015-06-10T18:04:17Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So you are explicitly implying that whatever the officer tells you to do, you are required to do it? I’m explicitly implying that you could/might/may be detained, and/or arrested, for NOT following lawful orders. It’s your life, it’s your choice. Best of luck, dude. OTOH, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3512 "2015-06-10T18:09:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > … for NOT following lawful orders. What are the lawful orders that these wonderful and infallible policemen allowed to give us ungrateful and unworthy mortals? Can they make us do pushups? Squawk like a chicken? Do the hokey-pokey? Or can they tell any of us to do anything they wish at any time just because they’re so awesome? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3513 "2015-06-10T18:10:52Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Or the white kid who said it was like he was invisible - all around him kids were being detained but as the white guy with the camera he was ignored? Unless he’s just plain lying, I think there’s your proof right there. How were the cops distinguishing the kids who they needed to detain from the ones who didn’t? Sure seems like the cops very much took color into account. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3514 "2015-06-10T18:14:26Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Nevermind Steophan. Can’t let you take away a good American job from Doorhinge. _March 17, 2015 email “State’s Attorney Mosby asked me to look into community concerns regarding drug dealing in the area of North Ave and Mount St.” -Joshua Rosenblatt, division chief of Mosby’s Crime Strategies Unit_ \*June 9, 2015, 9:40 PM About three weeks before Freddie Gray was chased from a West Baltimore corner by three Baltimore police officers — the start of a fatal encounter — the office of prosecutor Marilyn Mosby asked police to target the intersection with “enhanced” drug enforcement efforts, court documents show… “State’s Attorney Mosby asked me to look into community concerns regarding drug dealing in the area of North Ave and Mount St,” Joshua Rosenblatt, division chief of Mosby’s Crime Strategies Unit, wrote in a March 17 email to a Western District police commander. “Mrs. Mosby herself is now an integral part of the story and as such is a central witness,” the defense attorneys argued. “This is a case where the witness and the prosecutor are one and the same.”\* [http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-mosby-email-20150609-story.html#page=1](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-mosby-email-20150609-story.html#page=1) I wonder if Mosby will recuse herself? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3515 "2015-06-10T18:21:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What are the lawful orders that these wonderful and infallible policemen allowed to give us ungrateful and unworthy mortals? Can they make us do pushups? Squawk like a chicken? Do the hokey-pokey? Or can they tell any of us to do anything they wish at any time just because they’re so awesome? (underline added) Who is this “us ungrateful and unworthy mortals” that you are referring to? 😕 No, they can’t make you do the hokey-pokey, but they can take you to the pokey for disobeying an actual lawful order. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3516 "2015-06-10T18:29:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > Who is this “us ungrateful and unworthy mortals” that you are referring to? 😕 > > No, they can’t make you do the hokey-pokey, but they can take you to the pokey for disobeying an actual lawful order. All of us who aren’t policemen. I want a list of what they can tell us to do and what they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3517 "2015-06-10T18:29:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I stand strong with McKinney Police Chief Greg Conley’s decision to accept Officer Loudmouth’s resignation. Conley said that officer’s behavior was “[Indefensible](http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/McKinney-Officer-Resigns-Amid-Pool-Party-Investigation-306696581.html)”. I agree. > > The usual commie pinkos will side with the police unions. You know, folks like Steophan. Doorhinge. Smapti. A motley crowd of anarchists, ruffians and social undesirables. > > I side with the Chief of Police of McKinney’s decision. And America. That’s just silly. Have you met all of America? Watching the media outlets, it seems that there are many people who don’t agree with you. I’m shocked. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3518 "2015-06-10T18:29:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What are the lawful orders that these wonderful and infallible policemen allowed to give us ungrateful and unworthy mortals? Can they make us do pushups? Squawk like a chicken? Do the hokey-pokey? Or can they tell any of us to do anything they wish at any time just because they’re so awesome? I want to be clear that, like the McKinney police chief, I disagree with **doorhinge** regarding the validity of Officer Loudmouth’s actions. However, “lawful orders” is most definitely a thing that existed long before \*\*doorhinge \*\*brought it up in this thread. IANAL, but I believe LEO’s can give specific directions to citizens in or near particular areas without intending to either detain or arrest them. If you’re in or near a crime scene or a scene of ongoing or potential civil disturbance and an officer tells you to vacate or to move to a designated area, it’s not automatically or even usually because (s)he’s feeling particularly awesome and arbitrary. And even if that \*is \*the case, you can be subsequently detained or arrested -legally- for failure to comply. You knew this, right? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3519 "2015-06-10T18:38:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > All of us who aren’t policemen. > > I want a list of what they can tell us to do and what they can’t. You’re free to consider yourself to be an ungrateful and unworthy mortal but I considered myself to be immortal (at least when I was in my 20s 😃 ). And I’m not a policeman. I also want a list of what they can tell youse guys to do and what youse can’t. I’ll start. In some jurisdictions, they can tell you to stand with your feet together and arms outstretched, close your eyes, and touch your nose with the tip of your finger. ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3520 "2015-06-10T18:49:55Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Or the white kid who said it was like he was invisible - all around him kids were being detained but as the white guy with the camera he was ignored? > > > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > > Unless he’s just plain lying, I think there’s your proof right there. How were the cops distinguishing the kids who they needed to detain from the ones who didn’t? Sure seems like the cops very much took color into account. It was an almost exclusively black crowd. The white kid says so himself that he was one of the only white people there. What if there had been literally not a single white person there? Should the cops have gone knocking on doors in the area to round up a few white folks to meet some We’re-not-being-racist quota? Lots of the black people that were there were not detained. Some were. What did those who were detained do to get singled out among all the other black people? I don’t know but it obviously wasn’t being black or they all would have been detained. (Yay - nested quotes. Thanks **ElvisL1ves** and **eschereal**.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=175) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=177)