# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 188
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3741 "2015-06-15T17:05:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If the proximity of a big due (who might be a retired or off duty police officer) was enough to prevent the girl from getting up and running away the case then why did the cop have to sit on her? (post shortened) At this point in time, your guess is as good as any other guess. Why was the big due there? Did the big due tell yellow bikini to stay where she was until the officer returned? Did the big due threaten to squash her if she attempted to run? Did the big due offer her a dollar to stay where she was? So many guesses, so little time. And so few facts. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3742 "2015-06-15T17:09:57Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > 'Cause the Chief of Police gets his info about police business from “the media”? > > that don’t seem right Have you ever seen the media interviews where the reporters shouting question, after question, after question at their victim, errr, I mean at the interviewee? It seems to me that the Chief was pretty quick to pass judgment. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3743 "2015-06-15T17:14:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Have you ever seen the media interviews where the reporters shouting question, after question, after question at their victim, errr, I mean at the interviewee? It seems to me that the Chief was pretty quick to pass judgment. YMMV. I have seen interviews of various public figures. Not sure how that’s related to your notion that the CoP gets his info about police business from the news media. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3744 "2015-06-15T17:26:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > He resigned after he, and his family, began receiving death threats from the lynch mob-types, and the resignation came after his boss publicly criticized him BEFORE the all of the facts were known. The criticism came during the press conference where the police chief confirmed the resignation. What facts were unknown? What mitigating circumstances (that we do not see on the video) existed that excused the officer’s behavior? > [@](#): > > The fact that 12 officers were dispatched to the scene should have suggested to “his boss” that there was more to this incident than what he was being told by the media. So now the Police Chief of a town in Texas (and not the Austin part of Texas) is a knee-jerk police basher or something? This guy had a history. The video is damning and presents a primae facie case for shitcanning the guy. What sort of mitigating factors do you think the police chief is missing? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3745 "2015-06-15T17:28:55Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I have seen interviews of various public figures. > Not sure how that’s related to your notion that the CoP gets his info about police business from the news media. > > :shrug: Had the police investigators finished their investigation yet? Had the Chief received reports from his investigators, or the District Attorney’s office yet? I’m suggesting that the Chief gets “some” information from the LSM’s shouting questions. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3746 "2015-06-15T17:33:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The fact that 12 officers were dispatched to the scene should have suggested to “his boss” that there was more to this incident than what he was being told by the media. > [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m suggesting that the Chief gets “some” information from the LSM’s shouting questions. He gets some of his info re police business from the media but he may have been unaware that there was more to this incident than what he was being told by the media. alright ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3747 "2015-06-15T17:49:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The criticism came during the press conference where the police chief confirmed the resignation. What facts were unknown? What mitigating circumstances (that we do not see on the video) existed that excused the officer’s behavior? > > So now the Police Chief of a town in Texas (and not the Austin part of Texas) is a knee-jerk police basher or something? > > This guy had a history. The video is damning and presents a primae facie case for shitcanning the guy. What sort of mitigating factors do you think the police chief is missing? The same video(s) because it shows the officer giving orders, lawful orders, to clear the area, and many of the crowd refusing to leave the area. If you think the Chief is a knee-jerk police basher, that’s your opinion. The video shows that no one was injured, no one was shot, and no one was killed. I don’t see any mitigating factors that warrants the lynch mob-types threatening the life of the officer, or his family. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3748 "2015-06-15T18:48:44Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > We can all think up scenarios where it would not only be the safest course but also morally and legally appropriate to refuse an order or resist arrest. FWIW, I think the reverse of this, taken to the Nth degree, is the critical flaw in the arguments of folks like \*\*Smapti \*\*and **Steophan**. That is to say, when presented with a case where the police acted in ways that seem extreme and/or objectionable to the rational fringe, these jokers twist themselves into arguing (or, possibly, actually believing) that not only are there circumstances in which the police is morally/legally/rationally justified in doing what they did, but furthermore that a) these circumstances simply must have been in play in case A regardless of reported facts and therefore b) their actions were the \*\*only \*\*ways the fuzz could possibly have morally/legally/rationally acted, regardless of how bonkers the actual acts were. This cognitive dissonance brought to you by the axiom “the police protect me because I’m not a Criminal™, therefore the police is good”. I really wish there were a way to get people like this to reach self-awareness and self-criticism, but I don’t know how. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3749 "2015-06-15T20:51:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [Cameras are evil](http://abc13.com/news/cops-caught-on-camera-eating-marijuana-joking-about-kicking-amputee/779882/). _Evil!_ They must be destroyed! Santa Ana police raiding an unlicensed marijuana dispensary decided they’d take down the videos and eat some marijuana munchies. They missed a hidden camera. Here’s a YouTube version of the video without the ad: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JTKTfUHfeKM/hqdefault.jpg "Santa Ana pot shop raid sparks investigation") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTKTfUHfeKM&t=372) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3750 "2015-06-15T21:00:49Z")
A thread I started come to mind: [Self-defense… against police](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=586021) ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3751 "2015-06-15T22:12:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@xenophon41](#): > > > > We can all think up scenarios where it would not only be the safest course but also morally and legally appropriate to refuse an order or resist arrest. > > FWIW, I think the reverse of this, taken to the Nth degree, is the critical flaw in the arguments of folks like \*\*Smapti \*\*and **Steophan**. That is to say, when presented with a case where the police acted in ways that seem extreme and/or objectionable to the rational fringe, these jokers twist themselves into arguing (or, possibly, actually believing) that not only are there circumstances in which the police is morally/legally/rationally justified in doing what they did, but furthermore that a) these circumstances simply must have been in play in case A regardless of reported facts and therefore b) their actions were the \*\*only \*\*ways the fuzz could possibly have morally/legally/rationally acted, regardless of how bonkers the actual acts were. I’m not sure our full-throated\* supporters of law enforcement are really that concerned about imagining situationally appropriate extenuations for police misbehavior, so much as they’re convinced (I think this was stated explicitly by **Smapti** at least) that the very nature of the police role in society negates any such requirement. They’ve defined away the rote \*possibility \*of police misconduct, at least as far as the apprehension of civilians goes, so therefore no need to excuse any use of force in pursuit of “legitimate” law enforcement activities. By the way, I’m stealing the phrase “rational fringe.” It’s mine now. \*_snicker, snort_ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3752 "2015-06-15T22:20:48Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I’m not sure our full-throated\* supporters of law enforcement are really that concerned about imagining situationally appropriate extenuations for police misbehavior, so much as they’re convinced (I think this was stated explicitly by **Smapti** at least) that the very nature of the police role in society negates any such requirement. They’ve defined away the rote \*possibility \*of police misconduct, at least as far as the apprehension of civilians goes, so therefore no need to excuse any use of force in pursuit of “legitimate” law enforcement activities. Police misconduct is certainly possible. When and if it happens, please let me know, because it certainly hasn’t been present in the overwhelming majority of the cases the fuck-the-police crowd have been crowing about over the last year. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3753 "2015-06-15T23:54:21Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > By the way, I’m stealing the phrase “rational fringe.” It’s mine now. Sir, step _blam blam blam_ away from the phrase, please. STEP THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE PHRASE, DIRTBAG ! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3754 "2015-06-16T00:04:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Police misconduct is certainly possible. > > When and if it happens, please let me know, because it certainly hasn’t been present in the overwhelming majority of the cases the fuck-the-police crowd have been crowing about over the last year. Clearly you and many of us have vastly different ideas about this. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3755 "2015-06-16T00:15:02Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Sir, step _blam blam blam_ away from the phrase, please. STEP THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE PHRASE, DIRTBAG ! It was a good shoot. It looked like he was reaching for a trademark. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3756 "2015-06-16T00:16:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Police misconduct is certainly possible. > > When and if it happens Heh, “if”. You’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3757 "2015-06-16T02:20:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It was a good shoot. It looked like he was reaching for a trademark. That was a souvenir belt buckle from the Circle C dude ranch… And I was just hitching my trousers. I’m old. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3758 "2015-06-16T14:01:38Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The video shows that no one was injured, no one was shot, and no one was killed. I don’t see any mitigating factors that warrants the lynch mob-types threatening the life of the officer, or his family. YMMV. Damn, I must have missed the posts where people were supporting death threats and lynch mobs! Point them out to me, please? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3759 "2015-06-16T14:16:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > At this point in time, your guess is as good as any other guess. Why was the big due there? Did the big due tell yellow bikini to stay where she was until the officer returned? Did the big due threaten to squash her if she attempted to run? Did the big due offer her a dollar to stay where she was? So many guesses, so little time. And so few facts. We don’t need to be omniscient to come to tentative conclusions. Is it more likely that the 14 year old girl in the bikini was going to run away but for the presence of some anonymous big white due who would sit on her if she tried? Or is it more likely that she was scared shitless and would have stayed exactly where she was? We have PLENTY of facts. Several minutes of facts as a matter of fact. Unless you can provide some context that would explain away those minutes of video, you are just grasping at straws aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3760 "2015-06-16T14:17:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Have you ever seen the media interviews where the reporters shouting question, after question, after question at their victim, errr, I mean at the interviewee? It seems to me that the Chief was pretty quick to pass judgment. YMMV. Yes, very quick to pass judgment several days after the event where a cop very clearly uses excessive force to detain a girl that mouthed off to him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=187) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=189)