# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 190
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3781 "2015-06-17T14:49:54Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And you blame the people on this board for this? Or ALL people who want the police to be held accountable for their crimes? > > Ten thousand cops misbehaving is perfectly ok, but an occasional nutbag with a personal vendetta is proof that your critics are all monsters and should be dismissed out of hand? Are you even dimly self-aware enough to know how fucking stupid that is? Or are you just hanging on to your ideological pride at the cost of reason? He thinks that subsequent bad acts by others somehow cleanses the bad acts committed by officer asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3782 "2015-06-17T14:51:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > In short, you’d still be wrong. I assume that the Chief did what he thought was best, at the time. I question whether he had seen all of the evidence and read all of the reports of the incident before he spoke to the media. > > I’ll leave it to you to pass judgment on the evidence that hasn’t yet been presented. In NO way does your post imply that the police chief did what he thought was best. You were not questioning whether he made the right decision, you were accusing him of something. Either that or you are a horrible writer and have immense trouble comveying what you are thinking into written words. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3783 "2015-06-17T14:58:10Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Hahahaha. Did I blame you? Did I blame ALL people? People are making death threats and you feel personally responsible? OK, you know yourself better than I would ever want to. At this point we are getting sidetracked by your stupid assertion that the death threats have anything to do with this discussion. Just admit that the death threats have nothing to do with what the officer did to that 14 year old girl in bikini and we can drop it. Then we can get back to whether the police chief is a tool of the liberal media or whether he could have reached a conclusion at this stage of the game based on officer asshole’s prior history, the video, the comments of other cops on the scene and common sense. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3784 "2015-06-17T16:39:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Hahahaha. Did I blame you? Did I blame ALL people? People are making death threats and you feel personally responsible? OK, you know yourself better than I would ever want to. Will you please stop misrepresenting people’s posts? Nobody’ falling for it, you know. It’s very childish behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3785 "2015-06-17T17:12:34Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Hahahaha. Did I blame you? Did I blame ALL people? People are making death threats and you feel personally responsible? OK, you know yourself better than I would ever want to. Good god you are a disingenuous asshole. You are the one waving around this ‘death threats’ bullshit as if it means anything at all in the context of this thread, trying for your gotcha moments, and then you come up with this little turd? :dubious: Congratulations, you’ve earned the rare distinction of being so stupid, disingenuous and hypocritical that I will now put you on Ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3786 "2015-06-17T18:03:58Z")
I won’t put you on ignore, doorhinge. Please clarify for me the relevance of the death threats. I’m inviting you to say plainly what you mean, instead of reacting by pointing out things you DIDN’T say or mean, which is surely a tragic waste of your valuable time and talent. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3787 "2015-06-17T21:51:36Z")
Not sure that this belongs here - [New Jersey officer](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/17/new_jersey_policeman_reportedly_kills_wife_witnesses_say_officers_made_no.html) shoots and kills wife while other officers look on, then apparently give him a hug. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3788 "2015-06-17T23:03:21Z")
You bet they recognized him. A “civilian” would have been shot a hundred times before the second round. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3789 "2015-06-17T23:43:32Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Not sure that this belongs here - [New Jersey officer](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/17/new_jersey_policeman_reportedly_kills_wife_witnesses_say_officers_made_no.html) shoots and kills wife while other officers look on, then apparently give him a hug. > [@](#): > > Tamara Seidle crashed her Jetta into an unoccupied green Ford Focus, LeMieux said. At that time, LeMieux said, Phillip Seidle got out of his car, took out his .40- caliber Glock service handgun and fired “several” shots into Tamara’s Seidle’s car. > LeMieux said that Seidle fired again at his wife after his daughter was taken away by fellow officers, and confirmed the accounts of witnesses who told the Asbury Park Press that no attempt was made to use force against Seidle as he fired this second round of shots … Wow. I guess she must have pissed him off. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3790 "2015-06-18T16:20:21Z")
> **[Day At The Pool Turns Violent For Black Family When Police Arrive](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fairfield-ohio-pool-police_n_7603484)** > > Day At The Pool Turns Violent For Black Family When Police Arrive I dunno why I even bother to post this here, for the cop bots to respond to I guess. Who wouldn’t get angry when they are told you can’t use the pool, oh and we won’t refund your money either. Check out the random white civilian who gets to act out his fantasies by restraining someone and the police say NOTHING. White privilege doesn’t exist folks! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3791 "2015-06-18T16:38:02Z")
So, let’s see. Unaccompanied minors violating pool policies, refusing to leave when told to do so by staff, the Great And Powerful Mommy shows up to play the race card on a minimum-wage drone who doesn’t have the power to bend company policy, and finally they refuse to obey the orders from police who have been called to enforce the company’s property rights, and finally arguing with and trying to give orders to the police. In what way is their color at all relevant to the fact that they were self-entitled jackasses who didn’t think the rules applied to them? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3792 "2015-06-18T16:45:52Z")
[Chicago cop repeatedly fires into a car backing away from a traffic stop.](http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/699664/retired-judge-releases-video-chicago-cop-shooting-black-teens-car-report) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3793 "2015-06-18T16:58:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, let’s see. > > Unaccompanied minors violating pool policies, refusing to leave when told to do so by staff, the Great And Powerful Mommy shows up to play the race card on a minimum-wage drone who doesn’t have the power to bend company policy, and finally they refuse to obey the orders from police who have been called to enforce the company’s property rights, and finally arguing with and trying to give orders to the police. > > In what way is their color at all relevant to the fact that they were self-entitled jackasses who didn’t think the rules applied to them? Sigh… If you read it the claim is that the problem came from one of the kids apparently not having proper swim wear, the mom left to get proper swim wear and returned with it at which point they were told they would not be let back in and to leave. So the mom rationally asked for a refund of the entrance fee, and this was refused. Are you really telling me Smapti you would pay an entrance fee, then told you needed a different uniform which you went and got, then returned to be told no refund and to leave? No human being I know would put up with that. The pool should have refunded the damn money and been done with it. 1.Why did they even let the boy pay the fee and enter if he had the wrong uniform? 2.Why not refund the fee since they didn’t get to use the pool like they paid for. I noticed you didn’t address deputy civilian being allowed to enter the fray with no scolding from the police. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3794 "2015-06-18T16:59:57Z")
**Smapti** is constitutionally incapable of objectively analyzing anything to do with police or other authority figures. His brain is unable to do it, and he can be safely ignored on this issue (advice that I have very often gone against myself!). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3795 "2015-06-18T17:04:32Z")
> [@grude](#): > > If you read it the claim is that the problem came from one of the kids apparently not having proper swim wear, the mom left to get proper swim wear and returned with it at which point they were told they would not be let back in and to leave. So the mom rationally asked for a refund of the entrance fee, and this was refused. I don’t see her being “rational” in that clip. I see her yelling at the desk clerk who was likely a minimum wage employee with no power to authorize refunds for eight people. > [@](#): > > Are you really telling me Smapti you would pay an entrance fee, then told you needed a different uniform which you went and got, then returned to be told no refund and to leave? No human being I know would put up with that. I would be aware of the pool’s policies before I laid my money down. And I’d bet those policies include that the facility has the right to eject you without a refund for violating them. > [@](#): > > 1.Why did they even let the boy pay the fee and enter if he had the wrong uniform? Do you think he showed up in his swim clothes? Every public pool I’ve ever experienced had changing rooms. > [@](#): > > Why not refund the fee since they didn’t get to use the pool like they paid for. Why refund the fee to someone who violated the terms of use? > [@](#): > > I noticed you didn’t address deputy civilian being allowed to enter the fray with no scolding from the police. Why would the police scold someone who was _helping_ them do their job? I don’t see anyone in this video being shot. Nobody is being Tased. Nobody is being put in a chokehold, or sat on top of, or beaten with sticks. The police are using measured, _unarmed_ force to subdue people who are disturbing the peace, trespassing, and resisting arrest. What do you propose they should have done instead? Pulled a gun on the cashier and forced her to open the till and give them their money back? Perhaps they should have just stood there and given them stern looks until they eventually decided they felt like leaving on their own. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3796 "2015-06-18T17:16:37Z")
I’m just going to drop this here and then run like hell. [The Counted. People killed by Police in the US 2015.](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#) The fact that it exists pretty much freaks me out. Not all of them are ‘controversial’, but many, many of them are and the sheer number strikes me as controversial in itself. I only got as far back as April and couldn’t stomach any more. [William Chapman II](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/william-chapman-unarmed-shot-dead) finished me off. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3797 "2015-06-18T17:21:19Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > [William Chapman II](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/william-chapman-unarmed-shot-dead) finished me off. From your source; > [@](#): > > Construction workers who saw the confrontation between Chapman and Rankin told local television reporters that the 18-year-old appeared to break free from an attempt by the officer to handcuff him against a parked car. > One, Leroy Woodman, told reporters at the scene Chapman was shot because he “took a couple steps towards the cop like he was ready to fight”. A colleague of Woodman’s, Paul Akey, said Chapman “came at” Rankin after the Taser was knocked from Rankin’s hand and the officer stepped back. Akey said he believed Rankin’s actions were justified. So the controversy here is what - that the cop didn’t let the perp get a few blows in first? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3798 "2015-06-18T17:29:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So the controversy here is what - that the cop didn’t let the perp get a few blows in first? Yes. Cops don’t get to shoot kids that take a swing at them. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3799 "2015-06-18T17:39:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > From your source; > > So the controversy here is what - that the cop didn’t let the perp get a few blows in first? Love how you skip over all the repulsive things the cop did prior to being allowed back out on the streets (like killing another unarmed young black man under suspicious circumstances). Oh, and that the police have yet to say whether the deceased actually had any shoplifted goods on him. Funny how only witnesses that support the cop’s narrative get any traction from you. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/3800 "2015-06-18T17:45:21Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Love how you skip over all the repulsive things the cop did prior to being allowed back out on the streets Is that somehow relevant to the fact that the perp wriggled out of being handcuffed, disarmed him of his Taser, and charged him in full view of several witnesses? > [@](#): > > (like killing another unarmed young black man under suspicious circumstances). Nowhere does the article say the man he shot before was black. It says he was from Kazakhstan - a central Asian country with no significant African population. > [@](#): > > Oh, and that the police have yet to say whether the deceased actually had any shoplifted goods on him. Is that somehow relevant to the fact that the perp wriggled out of being handcuffed, disarmed him of his Taser, and charged him in full view of several witnesses? > [@](#): > > Funny how only witnesses that support the cop’s narrative get any traction from you. If you know of any witnesses that disagree with the cop’s narrative, perhaps you ought to inform the Guardian of who they are, since that paper didn’t seem to deem it appropriate to mention that they existed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=189) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=191)