# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/401 "2014-12-17T15:28:27Z")
Is there any point at which a cop is expected to put their own life at risk when dealing with someone who may or may not be threatening them? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/402 "2014-12-17T15:44:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Cripes, you’re an idiot. > > Regards, > Shodan I apologize for not arguing at your level of expertise. I hope this response is more suitable: I’m rubber and you’re glue-what you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Neener Neener, Czarcasm ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/403 "2014-12-17T16:09:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think one of the major differences in these discussions is assumptions of how many cops are actually bad apples. Everyone knows that at least some cops are bad, but I get the impression that the knee-jerk cop defenders on this board assume that this number is very, very low (maybe less than 1%) while the critics believe it’s much higher. > > A retired-police acquaintance of mine explained it thusly: about 20% of cops want to be Supercop (meaning they want to be awesome superhero police officers who get all the bad guys and save lots of lives); about 20% are bullies who want to dominate others; and about 60% are regular folks who just want to get by, do their job, and retire. Obviously, it’s that second 20% that’s the main problem, though in my view the rest might be unwittingly complicit in bad behavior if police training and culture in some departments make it more difficult to actually treat people equally on the street. “Complicit” is part of the bad-apple category. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/404 "2014-12-17T16:14:42Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > PolicedropyourgunBLAM. Motherfuckers. You misspelled “BLAMPolicedropyourgun”. ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/405 "2014-12-17T16:49:37Z")
[Psycho cop snaps kills woman shoots her daughter](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20141217_Delco_D_A ___Psycho_cop_snaps__ kills_woman__shoots_her_daughter.html) What just adds to the cynicism I feel toward the police right now is this comment from the article: > [@](#): > > Colwyn Police Chief Bryan Hills previously told the Delaware County Daily Times that he thought the most recent stalking allegations were overblown. > > “Looking at the circumstances, I think a lot of this is bulls—,” Hills told the newspaper in April. From a completely _separate_ stalking incident with another woman. He was _convicted_ - not just accused, but _convicted_ - of harassment. _Twice_. And still had his job. He just killed a woman. Shot her daughter. Reloaded the damn thing. But is he dead? He’s an obvious danger to everyone, included the cops coming on the scene. Nope, he gets to call in his own goddamn crime on his police radio, and tell his friends, “I’m unarmed”. He’s in the hospital because his victim’s husband shot him and his friends, the other cops, didn’t leave him to bleed out. But some would justify killing a 12 year old with a toy gun within a couple of seconds on showing up. Who didn’t actually try to hurt any one. Choking a guy selling single cigarettes. Who again, didn’t actually try to hurt any one. Screw the police and their fucking “us vs. them” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/406 "2014-12-17T18:22:43Z")
> [@KAndre](#): > > [Psycho cop snaps kills woman shoots her daughter](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20141217_Delco_D_A ___Psycho_cop_snaps__ kills_woman__shoots_her_daughter.html) > > What just adds to the cynicism I feel toward the police right now is this comment from the article: Truly terrifying (hunted by a member of the very group that is supposed to protect you???), and more than a little confusing. > [@](#): > > Whelan said Rozniakowski, 32, who resigned his position with the Colwyn Police Department on Monday before the shooting, Was he a member of two different police forces at the same time? Is Colwyn Police the same as Delco Police? If so, why did he still have a service weapon, bullet proof vest and police radio? These questions along with the very obvious and already asked 'How the fuck does a guy with _multiple harassment convictions_ have a job in Law Enforcement??? > [@](#): > > _“He said he just wanted to chat with her,” said Rozniakowski’s attorney, Marty Mullaney, who spoke with Morrow and Rozniakowski separately Monday in an attempt to defuse the situation._ Was he able to keep a straight face when he said this? Did the reporters laugh or cringe? You do not arm yourself, don a bullet proof vest and kick in a door for a chat. > [@](#): > > Colwyn Police Chief Bryan Hills previously told the Delaware County Daily Times that he thought the most recent stalking allegations were overblown. > Read more at I, for one, would really like him to answer if he still thinks the allegations were overblown. _‘Have you had a chance to reconsider your previous idiotic statement?’_ ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/407 "2014-12-17T19:37:54Z")
[Another article, with a lot more detail.](http://www.pottsmerc.com/general-news/20141217/da-ex-colwyn-cops-intent-was-to-execute-woman-who-spurned-him) Apparently, the convictions he got didn’t seem to all that important: > [@](#): > > Whelan said previous cases against Rozniakowski were summary offenses that would not preclude an individual from obtaining a law enforcement position. the thinking seems to have gone, “Eh, how bad could harassment and stalking really be?” ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/408 "2014-12-18T04:54:50Z")
We’re, predictably, hearing crickets from the pro-police folk around here about this. Fact is, I see cases on my Facebook feed every day that would get this exact response (that is, no response), for pretty much the same reason. Cases like this that offend any reasonable human are a dime a dozen these days. We live in a police state, wake up and smell the gunpowder, people. I still don’t understand why some people are so slow to see how bad things have gotten. I’m almost afraid to ask what it would take to get enough people to wake up so that we could vote better people into office. Right now the political will is not there yet, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/409 "2014-12-18T05:51:53Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > We’re, predictably, hearing crickets from the pro-police folk around here about this. > > Fact is, I see cases on my Facebook feed every day that would get this exact response (that is, no response), for pretty much the same reason. Cases like this that offend any reasonable human are a dime a dozen these days. We live in a police state, wake up and smell the gunpowder, people. > > I still don’t understand why some people are so slow to see how bad things have gotten. I’m almost afraid to ask what it would take to get enough people to wake up so that we could vote better people into office. Right now the political will is not there yet, it seems. Perhaps because some people don’t believe that things have actually gotten worse, but that due to things like Facebook we’re all more aware of things that are happening - good and bad. What would it take for someone to get voted into office? Someone who doesn’t just decry how bad things are but has a practical plan to make things better. For example, no-one’s complaining about police body cameras, no matter what side they’re on. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/410 "2014-12-18T06:29:35Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Perhaps because some people don’t believe that things have actually gotten worse, but that due to things like Facebook we’re all more aware of things that are happening - good and bad. > > What would it take for someone to get voted into office? Someone who doesn’t just decry how bad things are but has a practical plan to make things better. For example, no-one’s complaining about police body cameras, no matter what side they’re on. No complaints now…but lets see how often they “break down” when incidents involving injuries to citizens start up. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/411 "2014-12-18T07:09:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No complaints now…but lets see how often they “break down” when incidents involving injuries to citizens start up. Back in April, the LAPD found [many of their dashboard cameras](http://articles.latimes.com/2014/apr/07/local/la-me-lapd-tamper-20140408) had been tampered with, to disable the voice recording part. They decided not to investigate. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/412 "2014-12-18T08:33:45Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Is there any point at which a cop is expected to put their own life at risk when dealing with someone who may or may not be threatening them? (The answer is _yes_, you fucking morons.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/413 "2014-12-18T14:07:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I apologize for not arguing at your level of expertise. I hope this response is more suitable: I’m rubber and you’re glue-what you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. > > Neener Neener, > Czarcasm We already knew you were mentally and emotionally retarded, so further examples are not necessary. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/414 "2014-12-18T15:18:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We already knew you were mentally and emotionally retarded, so further examples are not necessary. > > Regards, > Shodan And he returns with an inappropriate “Nuh Uh-_You_ are!” defense to the sarcastic remark. I think I’ll now bow out and leave him with his “That means I win!” Tin Cup O’ Victory. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/415 "2014-12-18T15:22:13Z")
I told you it **wasn’t** necessary. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/416 "2014-12-18T15:45:26Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > Back in April, the LAPD found [many of their dashboard cameras](http://articles.latimes.com/2014/apr/07/local/la-me-lapd-tamper-20140408) had been tampered with, to disable the voice recording part. They decided not to investigate. **Steophan** , not only had half the cameras been tampered with, but > [@](#): > > Most of the antennas were removed from cars in the Southeast Division, which covers Watts, Jordan Downs and Nickerson Gardens, where relations between police and minority communities have historically been marred by mistrust and claims of officer abuse. The in-car video cameras have been touted as a powerful deterrent to police misconduct and a tool for defending officers against false accusations. Got anything to say about this? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/417 "2014-12-18T15:50:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **Steophan** , not only had half the cameras been tampered with, but Got anything to say about this? The officers who removed or disabled the equipment should be charged with tampering with a motor vehicle. But of course they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/418 "2014-12-18T16:29:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **Steophan** , not only had half the cameras been tampered with, but Got anything to say about this? It doesn’t really have much to do with my point, which is that commentators on both sides of this debate seem to support body cameras pretty much universally. But since you want my thoughts, any officer proven to have tampered with a camera should be disciplined, and even if half of them have been tampered with, that’s still better than not having cameras at all. Assuming we have the whole story, it’s disgusting that they chose not to investigate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/419 "2014-12-18T17:09:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It doesn’t really have much to do with my point, which is that commentators on both sides of this debate seem to support body cameras pretty much universally. > > But since you want my thoughts, any officer proven to have tampered with a camera should be disciplined, and even if half of them have been tampered with, that’s still better than not having cameras at all. Assuming we have the whole story, it’s disgusting that they chose not to investigate. This has a lot to do with your point, because it is one thing to _say_ that you are for openness, as both sides have done for body cameras _and had previously done for dash cameras_, but the above case involving dash cameras shows that the police claiming that they are for such openness concerning body cams are just empty words for now. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/420 "2014-12-18T17:20:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This has a lot to do with your point, because it is one thing to _say_ that you are for openness, as both sides have done for body cameras _and had previously done for dash cameras_, but the above case involving dash cameras shows that the police claiming that they are for such openness concerning body cams are just empty words for now. I wasn’t talking about police support for the cameras. I was giving an example of a change that, to use the language someone else used, both pro- and anti-police commentators could support. I doubt anyone (well, possibly one person here…) would think it’s acceptable for there to be so many “failures”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=22)