# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 213
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4241 "2015-06-26T17:45:38Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Ah, yes. This is useful because the police would never lie: > > [University of Maryland police brutality case is a sobering reminder that an officer’s word can carry tremendous weight against that of an average person.](http://www.alternet.org/story/146490/%27i_didn%27t_do_anything%2C_and_i_got_my_ass_kicked%27_--_the_unfolding_police_scandal_over_videotaped_student_beating) Was asked for evidence, provided evidence. As for the case you link to, that’s why I’ve consistently supported body cams. That would ensure all incidents are on video, which would minimise the usefulness of the police lying. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4242 "2015-06-26T17:48:38Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Where you see an “understandable mistake”, I see a twelve year old boy slaughtered while he played in the park. That’s what happens when you let your emotions overrule the evidence. Whatever actually happened, I think the likelihood that the policemen involved decided to slaughter a kid for shits and giggles is nil. It was _clearly_ a mistake, the question is whether it was a justified one or not. Do you _really_ think that the cops deliberately went out to kill a kid that they knew was no threat? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4243 "2015-06-26T18:03:02Z")
Looks like the cops decided he was a threat, didn’t care to investigate otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4244 "2015-06-26T19:17:22Z")
> [@grude](#): > > [Another Day At The Pool Turns Violent For A Black Family After Police Are Called | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/17/fairfield-ohio-pool-police_n_7603484.html) > > I dunno why I even bother to post this here, for the cop bots to respond to I guess. > > Who wouldn’t get angry when they are told you can’t use the pool, oh and we won’t refund your money either. > > Check out the random white civilian who gets to act out his fantasies by restraining someone and the police say NOTHING. White privilege doesn’t exist folks! And people wonder why black people can’t swim. 😛 What. Too soon? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4245 "2015-06-26T19:19:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, let’s see. > > Unaccompanied minors violating pool policies, refusing to leave when told to do so by staff, the Great And Powerful Mommy shows up to play the race card on a minimum-wage drone who doesn’t have the power to bend company policy, and finally they refuse to obey the orders from police who have been called to enforce the company’s property rights, and finally arguing with and trying to give orders to the police. > > In what way is their color at all relevant to the fact that they were self-entitled jackasses who didn’t think the rules applied to them? A bunch of kids who don’t follow the rules shows bad parenting and we should do something about that. Cops that use excessive force on those kids, meh. And their color is relevant because you would never see a cop restrain a 12 year old white girl like that. It just wouldn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4246 "2015-06-26T19:20:48Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Sigh… > > If you read it the claim is that the problem came from one of the kids apparently not having proper swim wear, the mom left to get proper swim wear and returned with it at which point they were told they would not be let back in and to leave. So the mom rationally asked for a refund of the entrance fee, and this was refused. > > Are you really telling me Smapti you would pay an entrance fee, then told you needed a different uniform which you went and got, then returned to be told no refund and to leave? No human being I know would put up with that. > > The pool should have refunded the damn money and been done with it. > > 1.Why did they even let the boy pay the fee and enter if he had the wrong uniform? > > 2.Why not refund the fee since they didn’t get to use the pool like they paid for. > > I noticed you didn’t address deputy civilian being allowed to enter the fray with no scolding from the police. That wasn’t a civilian. He was an undercover officer sent to he pool to impersonate a civilian. Kind of like how they have air marshalls on airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4247 "2015-06-26T19:25:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why refund the fee to someone who violated the terms of use? Because not having the right equipment is a curable violation. Its not like they ran with scissors or something. > [@](#): > > Why would the police scold someone who was _helping_ them do their job? Because its illegal. > [@](#): > > What do you propose they should have done instead? Pulled a gun on the cashier and forced her to open the till and give them their money back? No, just telling the girl to process the refund would have been enough. > [@](#): > > Perhaps they should have just stood there and given them stern looks until they eventually decided they felt like leaving on their own. After they get the refund it would have been trespass and then they can shoot to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4248 "2015-06-26T19:27:50Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not sure why you bothered to post it here, as there’s nothing even slightly controversial about the police behaviour. Whether or not they deserved a refund is entirely irrelevant, as that doesn’t justify their violence. > > The police using force to get people out of somewhere they have no right to be is not only not controversial, it’s one of the main parts of their job. Once you pay for entrance you have license to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4249 "2015-06-26T19:32:26Z")
> [@bup](#): > > “Exonerates” is not the same thing as “fails to find compelling evidence to prosecute,” dear. But it was not a close call. It was pretty clear that any case against that officer should have resulted in an acquittal. Sometime the bad guys are black. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4250 "2015-06-26T19:42:59Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. The answer to police misconduct lies with the police, but the answer to people getting injured and killed resisting the police or threatening them lies to a large extent with those resisting and interfering with police operations. Claiming people aren’t responsible for their own actions, especially when those actions are criminal, is a big part of the problem here. > > In most if not all of the cases mentioned in this thread, the actions of suspects made it necessary for the police to use some level of force, even if not the actual level they did use. The idea that, whatever you think of the police’s conduct, that Michael Brown or Eric Garner did nothing wrong and their criminal actions were irrelevant is absurd. Of course the police have to use force if people do not comply but you can’t treat the level of force as an afterthought. Its the whole enchilada. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4251 "2015-06-26T19:45:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do human beings have the right to self-defense or not? > > If yes, then do police have _less_ of a right to self-defense than other human beings, and by what process have they been divested of this right? I would go to jail for shooting a 12 year old that took a swing at me. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4252 "2015-06-26T19:49:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Because its illegal. Cite for the law that makes it illegal to assist the police? > [@](#): > > No, just telling the girl to process the refund would have been enough. You do realize that a policeman ordering an employee to do something like that would be _illegal_, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4253 "2015-06-26T19:50:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Once you pay for entrance you have license to be there. Unless and until you break the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4254 "2015-06-26T20:13:19Z")
Could someone please explain to me how “might have a gun” is an imminent threat, but “definitely has a gun in his fucking hands” is not? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4255 "2015-06-26T20:16:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > …Why would these employees in Walmart be required to run away and hide from the shotgun wielding threat, rather than simply popping a cap in his ass? (post shortened) Company policy may require employees to run away and hide. Maybe management ordered the employees to retreat to a safe area? I guess Walmart customers are on their own? Good luck. Thanks for shopping at Walmart. Does Walmart allow their employees to carry firearms? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4256 "2015-06-26T20:20:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Do you _really_ think that the cops deliberately went out to kill a kid that they knew was no threat? Tamir is dead; shot by cops who then stood by, not offering first aid. Deliberate or not doesn’t make a shit worth of difference, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4257 "2015-06-26T20:21:13Z")
So when do the Cleveland arrest warrants get issued? Ever? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4258 "2015-06-26T20:22:22Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Could someone please explain to me how “might have a gun” is an imminent threat, but “definitely has a gun in his fucking hands” is not? According to **Damuri Ajashi** , it’s “exposure therapy” for “hoplophobes”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4259 "2015-06-26T20:23:02Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Tamir is dead; shot by cops who then stood by, not offering first aid. Are Cleveland police officers trained to administer first aid and/or required to do so? > [@](#): > > Deliberate or not doesn’t make a shit worth of difference, honestly. Except that it makes _all_ the difference, unless you’re suggesting that people who acted in self-defense because they legitimately believed they had seconds to live otherwise should be imprisoned for murder. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4260 "2015-06-26T20:23:09Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Could someone please explain to me how “might have a gun” is an imminent threat, but “definitely has a gun in his fucking hands” is not? The several thousand times it’s been done in this thread already not enough for you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=212) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=214)