# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 223
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4441 "2015-06-30T19:50:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That has nothing to do with the question I asked, as I’m sure you’re aware, and just proves that you’ll continue to dodge it. My answer to that question is “I don’t know”, but it’s not necessary to answer it to decide if the shooter should be charged. I agree with Judge Adrine, and I trust his understanding of the law and this case far better than yours. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4442 "2015-06-30T19:53:15Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “Why did you shoot that guy?” > > “It wasn’t me, it was a leprechaun.” > > “But there’s video of you shooting him.” > > “Oh, so the video _proves_ there are no leprechauns?” “But I have this memory of a leprechaun being there. False memory is a thing that has been studied, so therefore because research.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4443 "2015-06-30T20:11:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ll try once more. Do you think the video proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not reaching for the gun when he was shot? “Who are you going to believe : me, or your lying eyes ?” ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4444 "2015-06-30T20:17:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My answer to that question is “I don’t know”, but it’s not necessary to answer it to decide if the shooter should be charged. I agree with Judge Adrine, and I trust his understanding of the law and this case far better than yours. So, if the prosecutor decides not to take it to a grand jury, will you then agree with him? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4445 "2015-06-30T20:18:04Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > “But I have this memory of a leprechaun being there. False memory is a thing that has been studied, so therefore because research.” Leprechauns don’t exist. People threatening cops with guns do. Another fail on your part. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4446 "2015-06-30T20:48:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Leprechauns don’t exist. People threatening cops with guns do. > > Another fail on your part. I don’t see either one on that video. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4447 "2015-06-30T20:58:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So, if the prosecutor decides not to take it to a grand jury, will you then agree with him? It depends on the information and evidence. If there’s not additional evidence that exonerates the shooter, then I’ll probably continue to agree with Judge Adrine that the shooter should be charged. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4448 "2015-06-30T21:12:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you actually believed in justice, you would acquit someone that can’t be proven guilty. That you would refuse to do that shows you believe in no such thing. The video is proof enough for me. Straight-up contradicts their testimony and shows they didn’t give any warning, just got out and shot. > [@](#): > > You have assumed from the start that these cops went out to hunt and kill a black kid, and refuse any evidence or argument that shows that view to be ridiculous. Look who’s suddenly a believer in mindreading… > [@](#): > > Oh and hey, love the return of the homophobia. I have no idea if you’re a man or a woman. And I’m sure you’d rim a WPC just as eagerly as you’d give a K9 a handy…it’s not the gender (or species) of the cop in question, it’s the badge that gets you hot, AFAICT. > [@](#): > > I’m able to tear my thoughts away from lovely cocks and balls to see straight occasionally I’ll believe that when I see evidence. > [@](#): > > , perhaps you should try moving that enormous chip on your shoulder Yeah, why am I so bigoted against bigots… > [@](#): > > that prevents you from seeing that cops and white people aren’t out to get you, or black people. Oh, yeah…if you hate racists, you’re the racist. Same tune (played on a thin blue skin flute, natch) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4449 "2015-06-30T21:15:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No-one can watch the video and be sure, beyond reasonable doubt, that they are guilty Watch the video _and combine it with their contradictory testimony_ > [@](#): > > - and claiming so means you are either lying or not reasonable. > Or in the case of **Dibble** , no doubt both. Look at Mr “‘Blacks are subhuman’ isn’t inherently racist” lecturing _me_ on what’s reasonable :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4450 "2015-06-30T21:18:31Z")
I don’t get, if the right if self-defense is so absolute, why the cops _shouldn’t_ shoot everybody on the scene as soon as they arrive, just in case. That’s basically Steophan’s and Smapti’s argument, reinforced every time one of them says that our questioning the actions of the police implies we believe they have no right (or a reduced right) to self defense. Seriously, how may times has one of them stated this, as in post 4421? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4451 "2015-06-30T21:21:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The video is proof enough for me. Straight-up contradicts their testimony and shows they didn’t give any warning, just got out and shot. Really? You can tell from the video with _no sound recording_ that they didn’t warn him? I suppose you also think Tamir had no idea the cops were approaching him, because the car made absolutely no sound as it approached, and he couldn’t possibly have seen it before it entered the frame. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4452 "2015-06-30T21:24:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Seriously, how may times has one of them stated this, as in post 4421? Zero times by my count. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4453 "2015-06-30T21:59:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Zero times by my count. Then arithmetic is among your many nontalents, you admit. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4454 "2015-06-30T22:26:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > “But I have this memory of a leprechaun being there. False memory is a thing that has been studied, so therefore because research.” Leprechauns! WOOHOO! I want to party with you, dude. I don’t know what you’re serving but I’ll have a double. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4455 "2015-06-30T22:34:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Leprechauns! WOOHOO! I want to party with you, dude. > > I don’t know what you’re serving but I’ll have a double. 😃 The only thing that’s been served in this thread is you (and Smapti and Steophan, but is there a difference?). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4456 "2015-06-30T22:48:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So, if the prosecutor decides not to take it to a grand jury, will you then agree with him? No. He cannot be impartial because he depends on cooperation from the police. There needs to be a special prosecutor. Can you not see the obvious conflict of interest? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4457 "2015-06-30T23:00:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No. He cannot be impartial because he depends on cooperation from the police. There needs to be a special prosecutor. Can you not see the obvious conflict of interest? So you’ll only agree with an official body if they come to the conclusion that you’ve already decided must be true, regardless of what the facts are. Roger. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4458 "2015-06-30T23:33:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’ll only agree with an official body if they come to the conclusion that you’ve already decided must be true, regardless of what the facts are. > > Roger. No. I just want the appearance of justice, which is missing in your scenario. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4459 "2015-07-01T05:26:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Really? You can tell from the video with _no sound recording_ that they didn’t warn him? Let me be more specific - they didn’t get out, warn him, then shoot, like they said, as the video _clearly_ shows Tamir dropping before anyone’s even out of the car. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4460 "2015-07-01T08:36:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No. I just want the appearance of justice, which is missing in your scenario. So it’s not justice you want, just the _appearance_ of justice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=222) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=224)