# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 233
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4641 "2015-07-03T16:29:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That’s pretty scary and impressive. If the guy had wanted to shoot the male officer inside the restaurant or the female officer outside, he probably could have done so. Good shoot, under the circumstances. It was a BB gun, actually. So probably a case of suicide by cop. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4642 "2015-07-03T16:45:24Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > For someone who likes to tell others off for using idiolectic meanings of words you seem to have your own for “imminent.” The gunman was still in the store when the staff and customers were afraid. He wasn’t just holding a gun, he was loading it. > > Sheesh. Man loading a gun in a supermarket: isn’t that the definition of an act that’s not intended to cause fear but is extremely likely to? (post shortened) I hate omnibus threads. They’re just too cluttered and it can be difficult to keep track of who’s responding to whom concerning what. (Sorry - mini rant over 🙂 ) Imminent means immediately. Imminent danger is a danger that can’t/wasn’t guarded against and must (if you so chose) be instantly dealt with if you wish to avoid sever injury or death. - imminent adjective us /ˈɪm·ə·nənt/ › (esp. of something unpleasant) likely to happen very soon: A rain storm was imminent. > **[imminent](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/imminent)** > > 1. coming or likely to happen very soon: 2. coming or likely to happen very… - What is IMMINENT DANGER? _In relation to homicide in self-defense, this term means immediate danger, such as must be Instantly met, such as cannot be guarded against It calling for the assistance of others or the protection of the law. U. S. v. Outerbridge,27 Fed. Cas. 390; State v. West, 45 La. Ann. 14, 12 South. 7; State v. Smith, 43Or. 109, 71 Pac. 973. Or, as otherwise defined, such an appearance of threatened and impending injury as would put a reasonable and prudent man to his instant defense._ [http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/](http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/) As far as what happened in the Georgia Walmart (it’s a supermarket AND a gun store 😉 ), it’s still not known if the shotgun toter actually loaded the shotgun inside any of the stores. I suppose that a witness may eventually come forward to testify in court. \*“After reviewing the yields of the investigation with prosecutors, it was determined that the action of the two men did not violate Mississippi state statute regarding the carry of firearms,” said Gulfport Police Chief Leonard Papania. …Papania added, none of the businesses the men entered that night prohibited the open carry of firearms.\*. [http://www.walb.com/story/29382269/police-citizens-react-to-gulfport-walmart-incident](http://www.walb.com/story/29382269/police-citizens-react-to-gulfport-walmart-incident) FYI - The shotgun toter has not been arrested for open-carry of a firearm. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4643 "2015-07-03T18:59:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > I hate omnibus threads. They’re just too cluttered and it can be difficult to keep track of who’s responding to whom concerning what. (Sorry - mini rant over 🙂 ) > > Imminent means immediately. Imminent danger is a danger that can’t/wasn’t guarded against and must (if you so chose) be instantly dealt with if you wish to avoid sever injury or death. > > - imminent > adjective us /m··nnt/ > › (esp. of something unpleasant) likely to happen very soon: > A rain storm was imminent. > > [IMMINENT | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/american-english/imminent) > > - What is IMMINENT DANGER? > > _In relation to homicide in self-defense, this term means immediate danger, such as must be Instantly met, such as cannot be guarded against It calling for the assistance of others or the protection of the law. U. S. v. Outerbridge,27 Fed. Cas. 390; State v. West, 45 La. Ann. 14, 12 South. 7; State v. Smith, 43Or. 109, 71 Pac. 973. Or, as otherwise defined, such an appearance of threatened and impending injury as would put a reasonable and prudent man to his instant defense._ > > [http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/](http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/) > As far as what happened in the Georgia Walmart (it’s a supermarket AND a gun store 😉 ), it’s still not known if the shotgun toter actually loaded the shotgun inside any of the stores. I suppose that a witness may eventually come forward to testify in court. > > \*“After reviewing the yields of the investigation with prosecutors, it was determined that the action of the two men did not violate Mississippi state statute regarding the carry of firearms,” said Gulfport Police Chief Leonard Papania. > > …Papania added, none of the businesses the men entered that night prohibited the open carry of firearms.\*. > > [http://www.walb.com/story/29382269/police-citizens-react-to-gulfport-walmart-incident](http://www.walb.com/story/29382269/police-citizens-react-to-gulfport-walmart-incident) > > FYI - The shotgun toter has not been arrested for open-carry of a firearm. All the reports said that the man was loading a gun in the store. Not merely buying bullets or talking about it. “Imminent” applies to the actions described in all the news reports so far. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4644 "2015-07-03T19:36:44Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > All the reports said that the man was loading a gun in the store. Not merely buying bullets or talking about it. “Imminent” applies to the actions described in all the news reports so far. The cut-and-paste reporting says some unknown person had said a man was loading a gun. Considering how poorly the media has covered this story, I’d like to see the Walmart security videos. The Police Chief had consulted with the prosecutor’s office before deciding that no laws had been broken. While you’re free to apply the word “imminent” to the actions at the Walmart, according to the Chief and the prosecutor’s office, no one was in “imminent danger”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4645 "2015-07-03T19:45:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The Police Chief had consulted with the prosecutor’s office before deciding that no laws had been broken. While you’re free to apply the word “imminent” to the actions at the Walmart, according to the Chief and the prosecutor’s office, no one was in “imminent danger”. Of course not; he was white. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4646 "2015-07-03T21:47:07Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > All the reports said that the man was loading a gun in the store. Not merely buying bullets or talking about it. “Imminent” applies to the actions described in all the news reports so far. Who was in imminent danger? Who could reasonably consider themselves in such danger? Who did he point the gun at, or threaten to point it at, or look like he was going to point it at? Who did he directly threaten in any other way? Who’s instructions to stop doing whatever he was doing with the gun did he disobey? You are just saying he was an imminent threat without backing it up in any way at all. Please answer even one of the above questions - “who” being an actual person, not an abstract “anyone in the store”. Did he, for example, walk towards a checkout, or another shopper, whilst doing whatever he was doing with his gun? Did the owner or manager of the shop ask him to stop what he was doing? What, in short, was the actual or perceived threat? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4647 "2015-07-03T21:51:36Z")
[Well, this could happen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjdpoqITXk) ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4648 "2015-07-03T22:47:29Z")
I’ve answered you already, you weird shouty person. You disagreeing with my answer doesn’t make it not an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4649 "2015-07-03T22:58:52Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I’ve answered you already, you weird shouty person. You disagreeing with my answer doesn’t make it not an answer. No, you actually haven’t. Neither’s anyone else. Which is rather telling, really, as it shows that you and they are well aware that he didn’t actually threaten anybody, or give anyone the reasonable impression that he was. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4650 "2015-07-03T23:08:06Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > [Well, this could happen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjdpoqITXk) I’ve thought that that guy in the red sleeveless t-shirt had the luckiest day of his life leaving when he did. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4651 "2015-07-03T23:08:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, you actually haven’t. Neither’s anyone else. Which is rather telling, really, as it shows that you and they are well aware that he didn’t actually threaten anybody, or give anyone the reasonable impression that he was. Shall I just repeat my previous post? Then you can repeat this one! What fun! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4652 "2015-07-03T23:40:58Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Shall I just repeat my previous post? Then you can repeat this one! What fun! No, you could answer the question, rather than lying about the fact that you already have. But I’ll admit, it’s kinda fun watching people bluster and blither and make it clear they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about, despite their lame attempts at distraction. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4653 "2015-07-04T00:25:33Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I’m honestly a little disappointed that Smapti and Steophan couldn’t hold true to the values they had espoused in their previous posts, where if a cop says he would fear something and if someone has something that looks like a gun it’s a reason for fear. > > No, a man loading a gun in a Walmart, and a cop saying that was cause for fear, is apparently not a cause for fear at all! They (Steophan directly) are of the opinion that a man with a towel on his arm waving down a police car is more of a risk than a man loading a gun in a Walmart! > . I was following back the thread of conversation til I hit this post, which doesn’t have a quote from a previous post meaning I can’t follow the thread back any further. Can someone point to the post being referred to here, involving a man in a Wal-Mart and a man with a towel on his arm? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4654 "2015-07-04T02:41:33Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Can someone point to the post being referred to here, involving a man in a Wal-Mart and a man with a towel on his arm? Which was the style at the time. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4655 "2015-07-04T04:26:19Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I was following back the thread of conversation til I hit this post, which doesn’t have a quote from a previous post meaning I can’t follow the thread back any further. > > Can someone point to the post being referred to here, involving a man in a Wal-Mart and a man with a towel on his arm? Not the posts, but, [Man in Mississippi Wal-Mart loads 12-Gauge and racks a shell, causing a lot of fear – open-carry law prevents police from doing much more than evacuate [del]their b-[/del] the store](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-walmart-shoppers/). Meanwhile, [LA police see man waving his (injured) towel-wrapped arm, asking for help: they shoot him in the head, injuring him very badly, because he will not drop the weapon that he does not have](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-man-with-towel-on-arm-shot-in-head-by-lapd-20150620-story.html). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4656 "2015-07-04T19:24:23Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Not the posts, but, > > [Man in Mississippi Wal-Mart loads 12-Gauge and racks a shell, causing a lot of fear – open-carry law prevents police from doing much more than evacuate [del]their b-[/del] the store](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/miss-police-open-carry-laws-kept-us-from-arresting-shotgun-toting-man-who-terrorized-walmart-shoppers/). You once again distort and lie by pretending the police encountered him in the store and did nothing because open-carry. [QUOTE=The article you just linked] According to police they received multiple calls about the men who had possibly done the same thing at a local Winn-Dixie, forcing police to divert officers to the Walmart to form a perimeter as the SWAT entered and searched the store. By the time police had arrived, **the two men had left.** [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4657 "2015-07-05T18:38:31Z")
Is that a distortion? Police can’t do anything to the men later, though if they HAD encountered the men at the store, there could at least have been a lot of panicked gunfire. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4658 "2015-07-05T18:46:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is that a distortion? The implication being made is “Sure, they’ll shoot a black guy if they see him waving a towel around, but if they see a _white_ guy racking a shotgun they won’t do nothin’!” Which, of course, ignores the fact that the police never encountered the subject of that particular anecdote while he was armed. If they had, they very well may have shot him, and they may not have, depending on how events played out. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4659 "2015-07-05T19:01:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You once again distort and lie by pretending the police encountered him in the store and did nothing because open-carry. Irrelevant. The police encountered him elsewhere (a distinction without a difference) and did nothing because open-carry: > [@](#): > > Using surveillance video police were able to track the men down and speak with them, but due to Mississippi’s open carry laws, the chief said his hands were tied after conferring with city attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4660 "2015-07-05T19:06:49Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Irrelevant. The police encountered him elsewhere (a distinction without a difference) and did nothing because open-carry: And what, exactly, did they do wrong? Are you saying open-carry laws don’t apply here? Or are you saying that they’d have shot a black person if he racked a shotgun in a Wal-Mart and they encountered him several hours later and no longer armed? Or are you saying they _should_ have shot him when he was unarmed? In either case, cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=232) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=234)