# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 236
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4701 "2015-07-07T17:08:14Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > A law abiding person does have justification to be afraid of[people](http://www.local10.com/news/police-investigate-robbery-by-possible-police-impersonator-in-sw-miamidade/33709790) [that](http://abc30.com/news/police-impersonators-pull-over-rob-2-men-in-visalia/387921/) [say](http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/28772082/warning-armed-dangerous-men-impersonating-police-to-rob-people) [they](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/14/john-arthur-benedict-fake-cop_n_7061182.html) [are](http://abc13.com/news/victim-details-traffic-stop-robbery-by-fake-cop-in-pasadena/410933/) [police](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/robbers-impersonating-police-pull-over-three-motorists-in-st-louis/article_27b3a4e0-ffea-11e0-a8f5-0019bb30f31a.html). How is that in any way an issue here? The officer was driving a fully decorated squad car with professional-grade lights and sirens, not an unmarked sedan with a revolving light on the dashboard. Are you suggesting a reasonable person could believe that a band of thieves has stolen a police cruiser, gotten away with it, and is now roaming the streets with it in order to prey on law-abiding citizens? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4702 "2015-07-07T17:09:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Demonstrably false on account of Tamir Rice. Tamir Rice was not a “law-abiding civilian” as has been amply demonstrated multiple times over the course of this thread. Objection overturned. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4703 "2015-07-07T17:11:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How is that in any way an issue here? The officer was driving a fully decorated squad car with professional-grade lights and sirens, not an unmarked sedan with a revolving light on the dashboard. Are you suggesting a reasonable person could believe that a band of thieves has stolen a police cruiser, gotten away with it, and is now roaming the streets with it in order to prey on law-abiding citizens? It’s (police impersonation in a “fully decorated squad car”) happened [before](http://kfor.com/2015/02/18/two-men-arrested-for-impersonation-in-the-best-fake-cop-car-youve-ever-seen/). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4704 "2015-07-07T17:12:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tamir Rice was not a “law-abiding civilian” as has been amply demonstrated multiple times over the course of this thread. This has not been “amply demonstrated” – the only thing regarding the Rice case that we know for sure is that Loehmann shot Rice and then either lied about it or told a false story about it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4705 "2015-07-07T17:13:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > the only thing regarding the Rice case that we know for sure is that Loehmann shot Rice and then either lied about it or told a false story about it. We know no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4706 "2015-07-07T17:15:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We know no such thing. Yes we do – we know the story told by the police was [false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice#Inconsistencies_in_police_account), per the video. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4707 "2015-07-07T17:17:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes we do – we know the story told by the police was [false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice#Inconsistencies_in_police_account), per the video. “There are inconsistencies between the video and the officers’ recollection” does not equal “they lied or told a false story”, as has been explained to you over the last several pages of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4708 "2015-07-07T17:18:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s (police impersonation in a “fully decorated squad car”) happened [before](http://kfor.com/2015/02/18/two-men-arrested-for-impersonation-in-the-best-fake-cop-car-youve-ever-seen/). > [@](#): > > The car caught their attention because it had an Ohio license plate displayed through the rear window of the vehicle, the release states. Though the vehicle was black and white with police decals displayed on all sides, it didn’t have any city, county or state name identifying the jurisdiction of the “officers” inside of it, according to deputies. That doesn’t sound like a fully-decorated squad car to me. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4709 "2015-07-07T17:23:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That doesn’t sound like a fully-decorated squad car to me. Did you even look at the picture? It looks like a real cop car. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4710 "2015-07-07T17:28:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Did you even look at the picture? It looks like a real cop car. I’ve never seen a cop car that just said “POLICE” on the side and had out-of-state plates. Have you? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4711 "2015-07-07T17:34:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “There are inconsistencies between the video and the officers’ recollection” does not equal “they lied or told a false story”, as has been explained to you over the last several pages of this thread. Yes it does – that’s exactly what it means. The video proves that some of the things they asserted were false. Maybe it was lies, or maybe false memories, but the police officers said things about the events surrounding the shooting that were not true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4712 "2015-07-07T17:35:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve never seen a cop car that just said “POLICE” on the side and had out-of-state plates. Have you? At night it might be nigh-impossible to tell the difference, and thus it’s reasonable to make sure one is pulled over in a safe place. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4713 "2015-07-07T17:46:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > At night it might be nigh-impossible to tell the difference, and thus it’s reasonable to make sure one is pulled over in a safe place. If the cop car had been a fake, he wouldn’t have been any safer in the Sam’s Club parking lot than he would have been at Bay & Liberty. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4714 "2015-07-07T17:48:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes we do – we know the story told by the police was [false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice#Inconsistencies_in_police_account), per the video. Nah, man. Remember, that was false memory implanted via hipnosis or sumpin. Remember? Steophan proved it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4715 "2015-07-07T17:52:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If the cop car had been a fake, he wouldn’t have been any safer in the Sam’s Club parking lot than he would have been at Bay & Liberty. If there were other people/cars present, or just better lighting, he might have been. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4716 "2015-07-07T18:25:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tamir Rice was not a “law-abiding civilian” as has been amply demonstrated multiple times over the course of this thread. Objection overturned. He absolutely was. There are no objections in chess, cheater. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4717 "2015-07-07T19:20:04Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Nah, man. Remember, that was false memory implanted via hipnosis or sumpin. Remember? Steophan proved it. I thought it was vaccinations. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4718 "2015-07-07T19:56:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes we do – we know the story told by the police was [false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice#Inconsistencies_in_police_account), per the video. I’m in agreement with you on this specific point, the police officer’s report was not factually correct. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4719 "2015-07-07T20:04:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Not pulling over _is_ a crime. But he did pull over. Just not immediately. He kept driving for 1.5 miles (at 35mph, that’s something like 3 minutes). How is that fleeing and eluding? Did he speed up? Did he turn off his lights to avoid detection? Did he take any other action to evade or elude the police officer? [http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jk5kzma3pske2225d0spslr4)](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jk5kzma3pske2225d0spslr4)))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-479a > [@](#): > > Correct. It doesn’t. I agree it doesn’t matter, he didn’t have to signal at all, he is within his rights to pull over in a safe place. > [@](#): > > He was offered a chance to plead to a misdemeanor. He chose to face felony charges. If his life is ruined, it’s his own fault. You don’t have to take a plea to a crime you didn’t commit. Or is your position that you should take any deal that a prosecutor offers you even if you are innocent? > [@](#): > > That’s completely ass-backwards. You’re arguing that if you follow the cops’ orders they might shoot you, so you should resist arrest instead and everything will work out. That’s not resisting arrest. > [@](#): > > That didn’t work in this case, and it hasn’t worked for anyone else who’s tried it. That kind of advice is only going to get more people in trouble they don’t have to be in. If this man had just pulled over, the officer would have determined he wasn’t the man he was looking for and sent him on his way. And what if the officer wasn’t an officer but a bunch of gangbangers that got their hands on a police car? You really ought to pick your battles. I can’t believe they are prosecuting this guy, what a waste of resources. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4720 "2015-07-07T20:13:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But he did pull over. Just not immediately. He kept driving for 1.5 miles (at 35mph, that’s something like 3 minutes). How is that fleeing and eluding? Did he speed up? Did he turn off his lights to avoid detection? Did he take any other action to evade or elude the police officer? You answered your own question. He kept driving for 1.5 miles. > [@](#): > > I agree it doesn’t matter, he didn’t have to signal at all, he is within his rights to pull over in a safe place. I am aware of no “but not unless he thinks the place that he’s at is unsafe because maybe the cops are actually bandits or something” exemption in Michigan law. > [@](#): > > You don’t have to take a plea to a crime you didn’t commit. Or is your position that you should take any deal that a prosecutor offers you even if you are innocent? It is my position that people who are guilty of a crime should accept that they are guilty and face the consequences instead of wasting the state’s time by forcing a trial, especially when they are graciously being offered an opportunity to accept a lesser sentence than the one which the law permits them to be given. > [@](#): > > And what if the officer wasn’t an officer but a bunch of gangbangers that got their hands on a police car? And what if the cop was a werewolf? That’s exactly as likely a proposition. > [@](#): > > You really ought to pick your battles. I can’t believe they are prosecuting this guy, what a waste of resources. A “waste of resources” that could have been avoided if this man had pulled over in the first place, or plead guilty to the misdemeanor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=235) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=237)