# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 242
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4821 "2015-07-09T18:19:49Z")
Gosh, only took 26 of them to beat the ever loving fuck out of this guy; [Philly Police Investigating Mob of Cops Who Beat Black Man on Video](http://justice.gawker.com/philly-police-investigating-mob-of-cops-who-beat-black-1716785804) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4822 "2015-07-09T18:22:42Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > In the interest of good communication, Smapti labelled Tamir Rice a criminal. > So the question was put to Smapti, “What crime makes Tamir Rice a criminal?” > > If you do not feel that Tamir Rice was a criminal, you may not be the right person to answer the question. Why do you participate in open discussions on open forums? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4823 "2015-07-09T18:31:42Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Since you were answering the question about what makes Tamir Rice a criminal, it seems reasonable to ask you what crime he committed. > > Afaict, Tamir Rice was playing in the park by the rec center. > I don’t think that is a crime. > But, I may be wrong. AFAIK, playing in the park is generally not considered a crime. Rice was reported to be pointing a firearm at random passersby. Rice may have considered that “playing”, but someone else became concerned enough by Rice’s actions that they contacted the police. The police responded to the complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4824 "2015-07-09T18:34:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Smapti, can you please answer? I am not going to challenge you on it (though others probably will), I just really want to know why you believe Tamir Rice was a criminal. He was publicly brandishing a device that resembled a weapon and had been unlawfully modified to resemble a weapon, and reached for it when told to show his hands. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4825 "2015-07-09T18:34:48Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You appear to think that “suspect” and “criminal” are the same thing, which would explain a lot. > [@septimus](#): > > “suspect” == “criminal” ? What grade are you in, **doorhinge**? What’s your IQ? And you’d both be wrong. Which explains a lot. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4826 "2015-07-09T18:36:32Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > With regards to Ms Johnston. These people fabricated a cause for a warrant. Having killed the woman, they then planted evidence on her. I’m not defending the fact that they raided the wrong house. That is inexcusable. I’m also not defending the fact that they planted evidence. That is also inexcusable. > [@](#): > > And you think she had nothing to be afraid of. You think she was in the wrong, firing a shot at people who broke into her house for no reason. You think she was irrational. > > The only thing she did wrong was miss. Do you think she could have gunned down the entire raid by herself? And gotten away with it? Picking a fight you can’t win _is_ irrational, whether or not you think you’re in the right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4827 "2015-07-09T18:37:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > and reached for it when told to show his hands. Cite? It’s not reasonable to assert this as factual. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4828 "2015-07-09T18:37:56Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > FYI to thread followers: [charges were dropped](http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2015/07/charges_dismissed_against_svsu.html#incart_related_stories) in the SVSU student DaJuawn Wallace case. Good for him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4829 "2015-07-09T18:39:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How are the British police managing to kill so, so many fewer people, even when the vastly different gun-murder rate is taken into account? The vastly different gun _ownership_ rate. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4830 "2015-07-09T18:45:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What could cause more legitimate fear for one’s life then a group of armed men breaking down your door, guns drawn? Ah, but is it imminent danger? Did they have towels? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4831 "2015-07-09T18:45:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The vastly different gun _ownership_ rate. The math doesn’t add up – not even close. US cops shoot about 14,000 times as many people as UK cops, per capita. The US has about [13 times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country) as many guns as the UK, per capita. Not even close, and a pretty pathetic ass-derived guess of a response. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4832 "2015-07-09T18:56:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And you’d both be wrong. When asked what made him a criminal, you responded with an answer on why he was a suspect. Which means either you don’t understand the distinction, or you were going for a strawman. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4833 "2015-07-09T18:57:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He was publicly brandishing a device that resembled a weapon and had been unlawfully modified to resemble a weapon, and reached for it when told to show his hands. Wow. Hard to believe they didn’t shoot even sooner. But that wouldn’t have been possible, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4834 "2015-07-09T18:59:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you think she could have gunned down the entire raid by herself? And gotten away with it? I doubt very much she knew how many people were smashing her door down, but firing a shot is a perfectly rational act in the hope it will deter them. Fuck me, the lengths you will go to in defence of the indefensible. What a dick you are. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4835 "2015-07-09T19:03:23Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Wow. Hard to believe they didn’t shoot even sooner. But that wouldn’t have been possible, right? They had to drive up off of the pavement to get where they did. That was not a casual arrival. They intended to down the gunman before they appeared in frame. That’s why the cop exited the vehicle started shooting–that was his plan. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4836 "2015-07-09T19:14:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Armed police in England and Wales only fired their weapons twice over the course of 14,864 operations that took place from 2013-2014. > > This means that firearms were only used in 0.013 per cent of armed police operations during this period. In 2014, only one person was killed by police in England and Wales. > **[Armed police in England and Wales only fired their weapons twice in 2013-14](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/armed-police-in-england-and-wales-only-fired-their-weapons-twice-during-14-864-operations-in-201314-10378829.html)** > > Only one person has been killed by armed police in England and Wales in the last four years And I strongly advise people to click on the link, just for the graph displaying this. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4837 "2015-07-09T19:15:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Good for him. So are you admitting you are wrong when you claimed: > [@Smapti](#): > > He continued to drive for a mile and a half without stopping and had no legitimate reason to do so. This is not in dispute. That meets the standard established by the law. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4838 "2015-07-09T19:17:34Z")
**Smapti** , cite the law that prohibits the “modification” of airsoft guns. Hell, cite that the orange tip law applies to " (b) Traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of compressed air, compressed gas or mechanical spring action, or any combination thereof, as described in American Society for Testing and Materials standard F 589-85, Standard Consumer Safety Specification for Non-Powder Guns, June 28, 1985." It doesn’t . He wasn’t a criminal. I suspect he just looked that way to you. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4839 "2015-07-09T20:20:29Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > When asked what made him a criminal, you responded with an answer on why he was a suspect. > > Which means either you don’t understand the distinction, or you were going for a strawman. Which is it? And you’re still wrong. I said that Rice was a suspect. I said Rice was a suspect because I believe Rice was a suspect. I’m not responsible for your inability to understand that I actually said Rice is a suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/4840 "2015-07-09T20:56:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And you’re still wrong. I said that Rice was a suspect. I said Rice was a suspect because I believe Rice was a suspect. I’m not responsible for your inability to understand that I actually said Rice is a suspect. Very good. Now go look at the question you actually replied to. And then go look up non sequitur. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=241) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=243)