# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 253
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5041 "2015-07-15T22:22:55Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Here’s my second question: Do you believe that happiness and suffering correspond to states in the brain which can, in principle at least, be quantified? I’m not a neurologist and I cannot speak confidently or authoritatively on this subject. It is my understanding that human emotions originate in the brain and are in all likelihood associated with a specific electrochemical state which one’s body translates or executes as the physical and psychological feelings we associate with that emotion. It is possible that in the future our understanding of how the brain works will evolve to the point that we can identify the specific electrochemical state which induces happiness or suffering, but as far as I know we have not yet reached that point. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5042 "2015-07-15T22:29:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There are no young, violent white men? Latinos? Asians? Why are all those police departments wasting money fighting gangs? Young black men commit vastly more violent crime than _any_ other group. Including whites, Latinos, old black men, and so on. > [@](#): > > Calling you an idiot is an insult to idiots. No, it just shows you’re incapable of following an argument. Whether you admit it or not, it’s an uncontroversial fact that young black men in the US are vastly more violent than anyone else. Your dislike of that fact, and refusal to talk about it, says nothing except that you’re a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5043 "2015-07-15T22:32:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is an astoundingly false assertion when the entire 150 years (or prior decades) are considered. So, when have black people been interned based solely on their ancestry? When have they been moved to reservations? When have their been attempted (and sometimes successful) genocides of them? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5044 "2015-07-15T22:35:51Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism. I’ve talked to people who proudly self-identify as honest-to-God fascists and even they wouldn’t go as far as he does. Incredible… I am a liberal. I believe strongly in the principle that a person should have the right to live their life as they desire so long as their doing so does not actively harm another person without their consent. This is a position which, historically speaking, is an aberration, and it is one which can only exist in the presence of a government which is strong enough to command obedience of its laws upon people who insist that those laws are wrong and that they therefore have the moral authority to disobey them. When governments are weak and powerless to stop dissenters, the people who suffer most are invariably those whom a strong government would be better able to protect - ethnic and religious minorities, women, non-heterosexual-cisgender people, the mentally ill, and so on. These people _need_ the protection of a greater power, both directly and indirectly, because it is also only through the existence of a stable and powerful government that intellectualism and tolerance can thrive. I recognize that strong governments can also be wrong, and that the same power that serves to liberate can also be used to enslave. I oppose the unlawful resistance of bad government, in spite of this, because I recognize that my beliefs are in no way objective, and I can not possibly prove to someone whose views are opposed to mine that they are scientifically wrong and I am scientifically right. Therefore, if I assert that I have the right to disobey a government because it has enacted laws that I believe are wrong, then it follows that people who I believe are wrong have the right to disobey a government I believe is right. And down that path lies nothing but the incessant civil war, anarchy, and strife which plagues much of the Third World to this day, the end result of which is that _everybody_, whether or not I believe they’re right or wrong, is worse off. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5045 "2015-07-15T22:45:54Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > I’d just like to say **Smapti’s** worldview is absolutely fascinating. Abhorrent, obviously, but still, fascinating. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism. I have, on this board. The poster called **Omg a Black Conservative** is (or at least was - it’s been a while since I’ve seen him discussing the issue) as determinedly anti-abortion as Smapti is pro-cop, as just as willing to brinkman away all civil rights to that end. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5046 "2015-07-15T23:03:49Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > I’d just like to say **Smapti’s** worldview is absolutely fascinating. Abhorrent, obviously, but still, fascinating. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism. I’ve talked to people who proudly self-identify as honest-to-God fascists and even they wouldn’t go as far as he does. Incredible… There’s lots of people like that. How do you think they staffed Auschwitz? Those weren’t run by robots; they were run by people like Smapti. There’s a lot of folks whose worldview is simply “Authority is right because it’s right.” Smapti is, if anything, just honest and unfiltered about it; there’s other folks I know, and folks right here on the SDMB, who are pretty much the same but know enough to not quite come out and say it as frankly as Smapti does. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5047 "2015-07-16T00:14:13Z")
And to what extent are young black men actually more violent, as opposed to being more likely to be arrested (and added to the statistics) when they are, where non-blacks would get a warning or never have the cops called on them in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5048 "2015-07-16T00:26:08Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > And to what extent are young black men actually more violent, as opposed to being more likely to be arrested (and added to the statistics) when they are, where non-blacks would get a warning or never have the cops called on them in the first place? Differential minotrity contact doesn’t explain disparities in violent behavior. Indicators of socioeconomic disadvantage do. Even accounting for SES, the judicial system disportionately arrests, sentences and incarcerates African Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5049 "2015-07-16T00:29:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So, when have black people been interned based solely on their ancestry? When have they been moved to reservations? When have their been attempted (and sometimes successful) genocides of them? Throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, you astonishing half-wit. Also: Shorter Steophan: I’m not racist, there’s just something about black culture that makes black men more violent. (Maybe if he said it out loud to himself, he would be able to hear it.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5050 "2015-07-16T00:49:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am a liberal. Fucking liar. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5051 "2015-07-16T03:23:40Z")
Perhaps the bots need to start another thread _I like to see cops kill blacks – am i a racist? Is there racism in Amerika?_ Meanwhile, I’ll help with one example: The Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 (passed 20 years _after_ Civil Rights Acts eliminated racism in Amerika 😛 ) mandated a minimum sentence of 5 years without parole for possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine while the same penalty applied to powder cocaine only for half a kilogram or more. Why the 100:1 disparity? Powdered cocaine was a drug of choice for middle-class whites, while crack was used primarily by blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5052 "2015-07-16T05:39:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am a liberal. Liberalism: [“a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism) Now, which part of believing that it’s right for a slave to behave is to obey his master do you think corresponds to liberty, or equality. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5053 "2015-07-16T05:47:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Obviously you have no idea what racism is, then. Historical issues or socioeconomic issues aren’t unique to black people, the young, violent men are. You know why the problem won’t be solved? Because even talking about it gets idiots like you screaming “RACISM!!!” rather than actually trying to find out what’s happening. You know why the problem won’t be solved? Because vile fucking idiots such as yourself are so very keen to blame an issue with deep seated historical and social causes on “black culture”. Nah, can’t be generations of poverty, prejudice and a two tier society, it’s purely their own fucking culture, right? Of course, when repeatedly asked just which part of this culture you see as being the cause, you clam up completely, because you’ve got precisely fuck all. Not even so much as a Rush Limbaugh level “it’s all that gangster rap those blacks listen to”. I really would like to know just what parental issues you’re carrying to be so abjectly “White authority is good, blacks are bad” in your worldview. A white policeman can shoot unarmed people in the street, on video, and you’ll defend that to the very hilt. A black kid is killed for fuck all reason, and that’s fine, because after all them blacks are just violent by nature, that policeman had to defend himself. You need to take a long fucking look at yourself in the mirror, and if you come back with anything other than self loathing and a desire to improve you’re not doing it right. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5054 "2015-07-16T08:17:56Z")
I feel it’s incumbent on me to remind people who are talking about racism with **Steophan** that they are dealing with someone who believes “Blacks are subhuman” is a [neutral statement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=752213) to make. A clueless nutjob, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5055 "2015-07-16T10:35:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, you astonishing half-wit. None of those things actually happened, at least after 1865. > [@](#): > > Also: Shorter Steophan: I’m not racist, there’s just something about black culture that makes black men more violent. > > (Maybe if he said it out loud to himself, he would be able to hear it.) If I were racist, I’d be saying there’s something inherent to black people that makes them more violent - you know, like was often said in the past. That you’re too stupid to see the distinction is your flaw, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5056 "2015-07-16T10:44:26Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You know why the problem won’t be solved? Because vile fucking idiots such as yourself are so very keen to blame an issue with deep seated historical and social causes on “black culture”. Nah, can’t be generations of poverty, prejudice and a two tier society, it’s purely their own fucking culture, right? When _none_ of the other groups subjected to poverty or prejudice react in such a way then yes, right. As for a two-tier society, that’s not something that affected any young black men, having ended 50 years ago. > [@](#): > > Of course, when repeatedly asked just which part of this culture you see as being the cause, you clam up completely, because you’ve got precisely fuck all. Not even so much as a Rush Limbaugh level “it’s all that gangster rap those blacks listen to”. Gangsta rap is clearly a symptom, not a cause. > [@](#): > > I really would like to know just what parental issues you’re carrying to be so abjectly “White authority is good, blacks are bad” in your worldview. A white policeman can shoot unarmed people in the street, on video, and you’ll defend that to the very hilt. A black kid is killed for fuck all reason, and that’s fine, because after all them blacks are just violent by nature, that policeman had to defend himself. I want to see _more_ black authority. I want black people to join the police, and police their communities. I want them to vote - Ferguson according to statistics in one of the other threads had a turnout in the teens. I want to see members of majority black communities standing for political positions in those communities, not imported politicians (of whatever colour). They need to, in short, stop fighting the system and join it. Maybe democracy isn’t perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than not being represented at all. But guess what? Black policemen are as likely to have problems with violence from young black men as any other ones are. > [@](#): > > You need to take a long fucking look at yourself in the mirror, and if you come back with anything other than self loathing and a desire to improve you’re not doing it right. If anyone looks in the mirror and doesn’t have a desire to improve they’re doing life wrong. That’s one reason I spend so much time arguing with people who disagree with me. I’m not going to sit in a fucking echo chamber to feel right all the time, I’m gonna get my views challenged. And if they’re shown to be wrong, I can change them. Happened due to things I read here and argued elsewhere to do with transgender issues, to pick one big example recently. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5057 "2015-07-16T10:53:42Z")
Thanks **Steophan** for clarifying your rascism. I’ve been sick to death with your protests of innocence. You know why the discussions you are in end up with people shouting racism at you? Because you say hugely rascist things, you twat. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5058 "2015-07-16T11:51:25Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Now, which part of believing that it’s right for a slave to behave is to obey his master do you think corresponds to liberty, or equality. The part where I believe slavery shouldn’t be practiced in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5059 "2015-07-16T11:58:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Bam Boo Gut** was ridiculing the idea of blaming slaves for their own enslavement. Your next post was about Africans enslaving Africans, which had nothing to do with **Bam Boo Gut** ’s post (or any other part of this discussion). Thanks! Anyway apparently it’s ‘black culture’ that’s to blame. Why would black Americans even have their own culture? How did that happen? Would they not just assimilate into the mainstream American culture with all things being equal the great land of opportunity? They just want to be difficult? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5060 "2015-07-16T12:04:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There were times when that many Native Americans were killed on a weekly basis. You’ll have to provide a cite for this, not that I don’t agree that Native Americans were treated abominably. > [@](#): > > Yes, there are problems with young Native men being violent or otherwise criminal, that would be a good baseline for the effect of poverty and bigotry. And yet young black men, **despite being treated better** , are far more violent. The bolded part (my bolding) is a bullshit assertion. > [@](#): > > Unless you’re going to contend that the lynching of that many people is somehow worse than the attempted eradication of entire civilisations - an actual series of attempted genocides - in which case, I’d have to conclude you’re either insane or literally retarded. Hundreds of years of slavery (and associated daily rapes and brutality) followed by a century of near-slavery (and associated brutalization), segregation, lynchings, Jim Crow, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, criminal justice discrimination, mass incarceration, and various other forms of oppression, brutality, discrimination, and unequal treatment are absolutely comparable to the vile treatment of Native Americans. Yes, the Native Americans were treated abominably – and statistically in terms of crime stats, education, economic stats, and other markers of well-being, they are at or near the bottom. African Americans were also treated abominably – and statistically in all these markers of well-being they are also at or near the bottom. It’s not just a coincidence that the two groups that were treated by far the worst (in different ways) in America, Native Americans and African Americans, are also at or near the bottom in various indicators of well-being. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=252) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=254)