# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 263
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5241 "2015-07-21T18:15:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Most of those countries don’t have a universal right to bear arms _or_ the kind of easy accessibility to guns that Americans have. You take a unit of Norwegian cops and have them work a beat in Compton for a month and see if they still think they don’t need to be more proactive in order to go home in one piece. Most of those cops aren’t themselves armed either. Then there are countries like Switzerland where damn near _everyone_ has a gun; where, indeed, more people own guns per capita than the U.S. Why don’t _they_ have the same outrageous number of people shot by cops? And what about Canada? Plenty of guns in Canada. Why aren’t cops shooting people left, right, and centre there? Isn’t it just more likely at this stage that there are some cops who don’t care about killing civilians because they’re just plain sociopaths and they know the system will back them up? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5242 "2015-07-21T18:15:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The parked vehicles which they were _inside_ of? Yes. How is that a danger to life or limb? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5243 "2015-07-21T18:16:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Yes. How is that a danger to life or limb? Do you need me to _explain_ how a vehicle crashing into your vehicle while you are inside it poses a danger to you? ---
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5244 "2015-07-21T18:18:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you need me to _explain_ how a vehicle crashing into your vehicle while you are inside it poses a danger to you? Couldn’t they have gotten out? Besides, the impression I get is that she was only going at about 5 miles an hour. Dodgems go faster than that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5245 "2015-07-21T18:19:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The parked vehicles which they were _inside_ of? They should have just rolled up their windows for protection, since you maintain a closed car window is an unassailable fortress. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5246 "2015-07-21T18:21:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Good luck finding people who _want_ to police you under the terms you’re providing. You need them on that wall. Well, I have 'em on that wall in the small fishing village I’m from (France). They seem content to not shoot people on a lark. But then they do drink a lot :p. > [@](#): > > Most of those countries don’t have a universal right to bear arms _or_ the kind of easy accessibility to guns that Americans have. You take a unit of Norwegian cops and have them work a beat in Compton for a month and see if they still think they don’t need to be more proactive in order to go home in one piece. D’you maybe recall that piece linked earlier in the thread, about the Scandinavian cops on holidays subduing violent, angry, possibly high blokes on the NYC subway without feeling any pressing need to shoot up the whole car ? Because that story seems like it counters your assertion. Also, Canada. Your argument is invalid. > [@](#): > > Strawman. I continue to insist only that a cop should not be obligated to value the life of a hostile subject more highly than their own. And that might come into play if said hostile subject actually _threatened their lives_. Like, actually so. Not potentially so, or possibly so, or could conceivably do so at an indeterminate point in the future, or even very definitely has the means to do so but hasn’t shown any indication of a \*will \*to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5247 "2015-07-21T18:22:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you need me to _explain_ how a vehicle crashing into your vehicle while you are inside it poses a danger to you? Yes. Explain how a car which is cornered between two police cars and a tree with no more than two feet of wiggle room could possibly present a threat to life or limb. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5248 "2015-07-21T18:22:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Do you need me to _explain_ how a vehicle crashing into your vehicle while you are inside it poses a danger to you? She wasn’t travelling at a high rate of speed-she was bumping them from a standing start. She didn’t even set off their airbags. They shot her because she was damaging their vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5249 "2015-07-21T18:23:25Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > Most of those cops aren’t themselves armed either. > > Then there are countries like Switzerland where damn near _everyone_ has a gun; where, indeed, more people own guns per capita than the U.S. [False.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country) Moreover, most of those guns are military-issued rifles which members of the public are _not_ allowed to possess ammunition for except when issued by an armory in case of emergency. > [@](#): > > Why don’t _they_ have the same outrageous number of people shot by cops? Stricter standards on purchasing guns, including licensing, registration, and the requirement to prove one legally owns a gun in order to buy ammunition for it. Outright prohibition of automatic weapons. Lack of the existence of a culture that teaches that the police are evil and should be resisted with deadly force. > [@](#): > > And what about Canada? Plenty of guns in Canada. Why aren’t cops shooting people left, right, and centre there? Stricter standards on purchasing guns, including licensing, registration, and outright bans on many types of handguns and ammunition. Lack of the existence of a culture that teaches that the police are evil and should be resisted with deadly force. > [@](#): > > Isn’t it just more likely at this stage that there are some cops who don’t care about killing civilians because they’re just plain sociopaths and they know the system will back them up? No. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5250 "2015-07-21T18:24:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > D’you maybe recall that piece linked earlier in the thread, about the Scandinavian cops on holidays So, in other words, “civilians”. > [@](#): > > subduing violent, angry, possibly high blokes on the NYC subway without feeling any pressing need to shoot up the whole car ? Because that story seems like it counters your assertion. Shoot them up with the guns they didn’t have? > [@](#): > > Also, Canada. Your argument is invalid. Rebutted above. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5251 "2015-07-21T18:26:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They shot her because she was damaging their vehicles. They shot her because she was attempting to kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5252 "2015-07-21T18:31:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They shot her because she was attempting to kill them. No reasonable person could conclude that she presented a lethal threat to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5253 "2015-07-21T18:36:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No reasonable person could conclude that she presented a lethal threat to anyone. The prosecutor and the grand jury disagreed. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5254 "2015-07-21T18:37:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Good luck finding people who _want_ to police you under the terms you’re providing. You need them on that wall. To paraphrase **Smapti** (he probably practices this speech in the mirror): “You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, **Kobal2**? Cops have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Small and you curse the cops. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know: that Small’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And the cops existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives…You don’t want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.” You tell 'em **Smapti**. What do the cops call a Code Red? Shooting an unarmed civilian? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5255 "2015-07-21T18:38:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The prosecutor and the grand jury disagreed. Who, the prosecutor with the conflict of interest? That prosecutor? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5256 "2015-07-21T18:39:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The prosecutor and the grand jury disagreed. One of the jurors admits they were mistaken not to indict. The prosecutor likely presented a feeble case because prosecutors and cops are thick as thieves. This is yet another example at to why a state or federal prosecutor should handle all cases where police kill people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5257 "2015-07-21T18:42:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > One of the jurors admits they were mistaken not to indict. And the other seventeen? > [@](#): > > The prosecutor likely presented a feeble case because prosecutors and cops are thick as thieves. This is yet another example at to why a state or federal prosecutor should handle all cases where police kill people. Hell, who even needs a trial at all when we _know_ they’re guilty? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5258 "2015-07-21T18:43:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They shot her because she was attempting to kill them. She was doing a shit job of it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5259 "2015-07-21T18:44:27Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > She was doing a shit job of it. And the Japanese did a shit job of destroying the US Navy. Does that mean the Pacific theater was unjustified murder? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5260 "2015-07-21T18:45:35Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > She was doing a shit job of it. Didn’t she damage their bullets with her body? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=262) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=264)