# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 264
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5261 "2015-07-21T18:47:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So, in other words, “civilians”. Cops are civilans, asshat. > [@](#): > > Shoot them up with the guns they didn’t have? Obviously, the point is that they didn’t feel like they needed any. If they did they could have not intervened, and had obviously no duty to do so. > [@](#): > > Rebutted above. When you’re down to American exceptionalism, it’s time to rethink your position, son. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5262 "2015-07-21T18:50:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And the other seventeen? > > Hell, who even needs a trial at all when we _know_ they’re guilty? Presumably this guy could have persuaded some of the others had he realized then what he does now. Who’s saying that? I’m just saying that local prosecutors are incapable of handling police killing cases. You know, there’s gotta be a place where the police have the freedom to act as you seem to wish. Where the police are always right and may kill anyone at any time with impunity. Somewhere with a Dear Leader, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5263 "2015-07-21T18:50:38Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Cops are civilans, asshat. We’re gonna have to change the thread title, then. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5264 "2015-07-21T18:51:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You know, there’s gotta be a place where the police have the freedom to act as you seem to wish. Where the police are always right and may kill anyone at any time with impunity. Somewhere with a Dear Leader, perhaps. Says the person arguing for politically-motivated show trials of people exercising their human rights. I, on the other hand, have never argued that “the police are always right and may kill anyone at any time with impunity”, and if you were capable of being honest enough with yourself to realize the problems with your worldview then you’d know that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5265 "2015-07-21T18:55:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Says the person arguing for politically-motivated show trials of people exercising their human rights. Filling someone’s face full of bullets for damaging a car is a human right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5266 "2015-07-21T18:56:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Filling someone’s face full of bullets for damaging a car is a human right? Self-defense is a human right. I know you don’t consider police to be the same as humans, but they are. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5267 "2015-07-21T19:02:45Z")
It seems to me that if a cop is too slow to evade a crawling car, it might be time for him to retire. There were non-lethal alternatives, the cop just chose to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5268 "2015-07-21T19:11:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There were non-lethal alternatives And a person who is in danger of life or limb is not obligated to take _any_ of them, whether or not they wear a uniform. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5269 "2015-07-21T19:13:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And a person who is in danger of life or limb is not obligated to take _any_ of them, whether or not they wear a uniform. When there is no credible threat to one’s life, one has an obligation not to kill. I think there might be a commandment about that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5270 "2015-07-21T19:15:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And a person who is in danger of life or limb is not obligated to take _any_ of them, whether or not they wear a uniform. You have not demonstrated how the cops were in danger of life or limb. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5271 "2015-07-21T19:16:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > When there is no credible threat to one’s life, one has an obligation not to kill. And when there _is_ one, as existed in this scenario, no such obligation exists. > [@](#): > > I think there might be a commandment about that. I do not acknowledge the Bible as an authoritative source of morality. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5272 "2015-07-21T19:18:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You have not demonstrated how the cops were in danger of life or limb. They were pursuing a person who was weaving erratically around the road, acting with complete disregard for human life, and rammed their vehicles several times even after being forced to a near-stop. No reasonable person would _not_ be in fear for their lives in such a scenario. I daresay you have never found yourself in a situation where you believed yourself to be in mortal danger from another human being, or you wouldn’t be asserting the right to tell others when they are and aren’t allowed to be afraid. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5273 "2015-07-21T19:22:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They were pursuing a person who was weaving erratically around the road, acting with complete disregard for human life, and rammed their vehicles several times even after being forced to a near-stop. > > No reasonable person would _not_ be in fear for their lives in such a scenario. I daresay you have never found yourself in a situation where you believed yourself to be in mortal danger from another human being, or you wouldn’t be asserting the right to tell others when they are and aren’t allowed to be afraid. But they don’t have the right to be in fear in perpetuity. The car was essentially disabled and locked in. At the most she was in danger of scuffing the police vehicles. Because there were legitimate concerns during the chase does not mean that murder after the chase is justified. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5274 "2015-07-21T19:31:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > At the most she was in danger of scuffing the police vehicles. Or crushing the legs and abdomen of anyone trying to approach. Or causing concussions to anyone inside the vehicle. > [@](#): > > Because there were legitimate concerns during the chase does not mean that murder after the chase is justified. It’s a good thing no murder took place, then. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5275 "2015-07-21T19:33:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They were pursuing a person who was weaving erratically around the road, acting with complete disregard for human life, and rammed their vehicles several times even after being forced to a near-stop. Which has no bearing on the threat that existed at the time the fatal shots were fired. Cops cannot claim mortal threat during a chase, then execute the suspect some time later when her car is immobilized between two cruisers and a tree. No threat to life or limb existed at the time of the shooting; they don’t get to save up their fear for convenient use at a later time. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5276 "2015-07-21T19:50:19Z")
Didn’t anyone – except apparently that highway patrol officer – think to approach this fear-inducing vehicle from the side? You know, from the direction(s) that the wheels _are incapable of pointing_ and thus a place that this driver, however potentially homicidal, cannot possibly project any threat? Nah, just stand in front where we’ve got a clear shot through the windshield! All my police training suggests that’s the best course of action. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5277 "2015-07-21T19:57:16Z")
No mention yet of [Sandra Bland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland)? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5278 "2015-07-21T20:03:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Or crushing the legs and abdomen of anyone trying to approach. Or causing concussions to anyone inside the vehicle. Were any of the police still in their vehicles? I’m pretty sure the shooters weren’t. And the car was pinned - all she could do was go back and forward. So approaching a door is not going to get your legs crushed. And you still haven’t addressed the crazily foolhardy state trooper who was planning on opening the car door when the two locals opened fire. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5279 "2015-07-21T20:04:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No mention yet of [Sandra Bland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland)? Suicide. Clearly identified as such by the medical examiner, and the jail’s cameras show that nobody entered her cell between when she was last seen alive and when she was found dead. Unless you assert that she was killed by the Invisible Man or that the police have a network of secret jail tunnels for the purpose of faking suicides, there’s nothing to mention. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5280 "2015-07-21T20:48:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Suicide. Clearly identified as such by the medical examiner, and the jail’s cameras show that nobody entered her cell between when she was last seen alive and when she was found dead. > > Unless you assert that she was killed by the Invisible Man or that the police have a network of secret jail tunnels for the purpose of faking suicides, there’s nothing to mention. The camera was off for a couple of hours, and both the county and the F.B.I. are investigating it as a possible murder. Or did you miss that part of the story, you shit-faced baboon? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=263) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=265)