# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 266
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5301 "2015-07-21T21:42:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There is no footage of that time period _because_ nothing happened which could have been shown. That’s what “motion-activated” means. Or it could have been deleted. > [@](#): > > And what evidence do you have that the jail’s camera footage can be “deleted with the push of a button”, or that such a thing happened? Any camere’s footage can be trivially erased, or the camera can simply be disconnected beforehand. As for evidence that it happened : none. It’s just as likely as “nothing happened whatsoever”. You don’t have any evidence of that, either. You only have an absence of evidence which you choose to rule is sufficient, nay, \*probative \*in and of itself. Tis not so. Even if you really, really love the cops and know for definite that each and every last one of them is above any reproach. > [@](#): > > What motive did the jailers have to shut off the camera, enter the cell, and hang the woman with a grocery bag in such a way that she suffered no defensive injuries or showed any indication of a struggle? Contrary to what you might see on TV, motive is hardly ever brought up in court. Only the facts matter. And the facts in this case aren’t conclusive either way. ---
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5302 "2015-07-21T21:42:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Neither, because there is no such thing as objective morality. But you have previously said that the law should always be obeyed. So should citizens of a country where the law commands them to fuck their kids obey that law? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5303 "2015-07-21T21:46:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As for evidence that it happened : none. Then you acknowledge that there is absolutely no evidence that a murder took place. > [@](#): > > Only the facts matter. And the facts in this case aren’t conclusive either way. Then you agree that a jury would be compelled to find the jailers not guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5304 "2015-07-21T21:49:06Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > But you have previously said that the law should always be obeyed. So should citizens of a country where the law commands them to fuck their kids obey that law? He has already said that if slavery was the law of the land, slave had no right to try to escape. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5305 "2015-07-21T21:52:55Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > But you have previously said that the law should always be obeyed. So should citizens of a country where the law commands them to fuck their kids obey that law? One is obliged to either obey the law of the land or suffer the consequences for breaking it. I cannot conceive of a society where such a law would possibly exist, so I cannot advise the people of that society as to what option would be better for them. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5306 "2015-07-21T21:58:32Z")
It helps to remember how you are viewed. > [@septimus](#): > > Can you cretins even keep two thoughts in your head simultaneously? ---
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5307 "2015-07-21T21:59:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > One is obliged to either obey the law of the land or suffer the consequences for breaking it. > > I cannot conceive of a society where such a law would possibly exist, so I cannot advise the people of that society as to what option would be better for them. So if, in this hypothetical society, one chose not to fuck one’s kid, one would be obliged to tell the truth about it if asked by the police? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5308 "2015-07-21T22:03:13Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > So if, in this hypothetical society, one chose not to fuck one’s kid, one would be obliged to tell the truth about it if asked by the police? I’m not interested in discussing some hypothetical society so fundamentally different from our own that its people and government would institute mandatory child-rape. Every aspect of life in such a society would be so inherently different from our own that absolutely anything any of us could say about what one _should_ do in such a situation would be completely alien and nonsensical to anyone who actually existed in it. Your continued insistence on building up this fantasy world is beyond silly and frankly rather disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![JVDaly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@JVDaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JVDaly)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5309 "2015-07-21T22:09:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not interested in discussing some hypothetical society so fundamentally different from our own that its people and government would institude mandatory child-rape. Every aspect of life in such a society would be so inherently different from our own that absolutely anything any of us could say about one _should_ do in such a situation would be completely alien and nonsensical to anyone who actually existed in it. > > Your continued insistence on building up this fantasy world is beyond silly and frankly rather disgusting. I just want to see how far you’re willing to take your principles. You’ve said one must obey the law or face the consequences, so I came up with the most disgusting law I could think of so as to test your fidelity to this principle and, unsurprisingly perhaps, you’ve just dodged the question. Maybe your belief system isn’t as internally consistent as you like to think it is? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5310 "2015-07-21T22:12:19Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > I just want to see how far you’re willing to take your principles. You’ve said one must obey the law or face the consequences, so I came up with the most disgusting law I could think of so as to test your fidelity to this principle and, unsurprisingly perhaps, you’ve just dodged the question. Maybe your belief system isn’t as internally consistent as you like to think it is? You’re asking me to comment on how one should behave in a fantasy world which has no relationship or bearing on our own. That I can not do. That has no bearing on how people on _Earth_ should behave. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5311 "2015-07-21T22:13:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then you acknowledge that there is absolutely no evidence that a murder took place. Well, there’s a corpse. One that was a young, happy, successful woman before meeting the police force from hell. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5312 "2015-07-21T22:21:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then you agree that a jury would be compelled to find the jailers not guilty. Yes. Which is neither here nor there wrt whether they \*actually \*aren’t, as I hope you can grok. For example, how did Sarah get access to a garbage bag strong and large enough to hang herself with in the first place ? I can’t say I ever had the pleasure of spending time as a guest of any US State, but last I heard they confiscated down to your shoelaces just in case you might try and strangle somebody with them - or hang yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5313 "2015-07-21T22:34:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No mention yet of [Sandra Bland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland)? Yes, a few pages back. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5314 "2015-07-21T22:55:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yes. Which is neither here nor there wrt whether they \*actually \*aren’t, as I hope you can grok. Yes, of course it is. One is _actually_ guilty of murder if, and only if, proven guilty of it beyond reasonable doubt, and except in exceedingly rare circumstances that only happens in court. As yet, there doesn’t seem to be _any_ evidence she was murdered, and some evidence it was suicide. As with any death in custody it should be fully investigated, but jumping to the conclusion that a depressed person couldn’t possibly have killed herself seems premature, to put it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5315 "2015-07-21T23:08:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > She _could_ have had a gun. The officer had no way of knowing she didn’t, and she had already displayed a reckless disregard for human life and was continuing to attempt to attack the officers by ramming them with her vehicle. Exactly. The only question is why the cops waited to fatally shoot her as long as they did, and indeed why any cop arriving at any situation shouldn’t shoot everybody there, because the cop has no way of knowing if they don’t have guns. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5316 "2015-07-21T23:32:42Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, of course it is. One is _actually_ guilty of murder if, and only if, proven guilty of it beyond reasonable doubt, and except in exceedingly rare circumstances that only happens in court. Yer wot ? If I put two in the back of the head of that \*cazzo \*Tony the Wrench but the \*stronzo \*DA he can’t prove no nothing on nobody ; am I wholly innocent of the murder, in your world ? > [@](#): > > As yet, there doesn’t seem to be _any_ evidence she was murdered, and some evidence it was suicide. As with any death in custody it should be fully investigated, but jumping to the conclusion that **a depressed person** couldn’t possibly have killed herself seems premature, to put it mildly. As far as I can tell, the only people asserting for fact that she was depressed are the cops. Neither her family nor friends seem to think that was the case. Granted, having had my own bouts with suicidal ideations, I’m aware that doesn’t necessarily mean shit because depression is sneaky and the depressed tend to be adept at putting on cheerful masks… and yet one wonders how the prosecution somehow knows better than the people who, yanno, actually were close to her. On the basis of what, one six month old Facebook post ? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5317 "2015-07-21T23:32:58Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > But you have previously said that the law should always be obeyed. So should citizens of a country where the law commands them to fuck their kids obey that law? YOU have quite an imagination. :eek: Personally, I would not live in the country YOU envision. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5318 "2015-07-21T23:35:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re asking me to comment on how one should behave in a fantasy world which has no relationship or bearing on our own. That I can not do. > > That has no bearing on how people on _Earth_ should behave. Kinda like your fantasy world where law enforcement can do no wrong and is justified killing unarmed civilians if they don’t immediately kiss the cops’ ass. In reality, there are some cops who get off on abusing their power. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5319 "2015-07-21T23:42:22Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Well, there’s a corpse. One that was a young, happy, successful woman before meeting the police force from hell. “Happy” according to which media outlet? WISTV dot com reports that Bland had recently posted that she was depressed and had PTSD. \*A woman whose death in a Texas jail cell prompted suspicions from family and friends acknowledged in March she was suffering from depression. Sandra Bland said on a video posted to her Facebook page that she’s suffering from “a little bit of depression as well as PTSD,” or post-traumatic stress disorder. Bland apologizes in the brief March 1 message for not posting any videos for two weeks, saying she’s been having “depressed moments.” She doesn’t explain the cause of her PTSD, but says they are things that affect everyone no matter their race\*. [http://www.wistv.com/story/29566410/the-latest-woman-dead-in-texas-jail-said-she-was-depressed](http://www.wistv.com/story/29566410/the-latest-woman-dead-in-texas-jail-said-she-was-depressed) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5320 "2015-07-22T00:02:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re asking me to comment on how one should behave in a fantasy world which has no relationship or bearing on our own. That I can not do. > > That has no bearing on how people on _Earth_ should behave. Don’t sell yourself short. You are this board’s foremost authority on living on another planet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=265) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=267)