# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 269
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5361 "2015-07-23T18:51:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Noone should ever get life imprisonment or the death penalty for defending themselves when they believe their life is in danger. Except when that fear is not reasonable, right? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5362 "2015-07-23T18:52:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Noone should ever get life imprisonment or the death penalty for defending themselves when they believe their life is in danger. So you believe that, for example, the other day when some jackass followed me a few feet in the parking garage and swore at me for calling him out on his bad behavior on the bus, I should have just straight up murdered him and I should be ok because I thought for a few seconds that he may attack me? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5363 "2015-07-23T18:55:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Noone should ever get life imprisonment or the death penalty for defending themselves when they believe their life is in danger. Well, except when defending yourself from law enforcement. It’s illegal to do that, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5364 "2015-07-23T18:57:07Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Jesus Christ! Not this autistic, literal interpretation of “I can’t breathe” again! We’ve done this already. > > **Smapti** you damaged fuck, you have to understand that normal humans use the phrase “I can’t breathe” to mean that they are having difficulty breathing like they normally do. There is an implicit “well” that normal people understand to be attached to the end of the statement. It is often one of the last things people say just prior to literally not being able to breathe. > > I realize that you are severely impaired, so this probably won’t stick, just like it failed to the last time. You just have to log this one away as one of those human rules that exists, even though you don’t quite get why. Perhaps you should write it on a sticky note and put it on your wall. I totally agree. My experiences as X-ray Tech in ER’s had MANY folks rushing in/ambulanced in to ER saying (in stunted sentences often) they could not breathe. Asthma causes constiction of airway(s) so that the volume of lower-percent oxygenated air is available with each breath, basically (wheezing/whistling sounds are common due to severely restricted path for ‘air’, IME). I’ve helped out with care of/X-rayed for confirmation of asthama conditions in plenty of Trauma-like situations where the patient is placed on high-flow oxygen ASAP so that the available oxygen for life is present at higher level than atmosphere gives, then there’s the meds that relax airway(s) almost always given right away, etc. A person can certainly faint/die from asthama attack if untreated soon enough (seen too many to remember accurately), all the while saying “I can’t breathe” when they have enough volume (finally) in their lungs to cause vocalization to occur. Being able to say sc in short, quick sentences is not unusual in an asthmatic attack until attack overwhelms the body’s need for inhalation of enough O2 % by volume of blood-v-volume of capillaries of alveoli and exhalation of CO2 to maintain a life-consistent ratio, etc. Never think a person who states they “can’t breathe” means that they are not having pulmonary distress of some sort - basic rule of medicine, afaik. And laying someone facedown is LAST thing that should be done in almost 100% of such scenarios, IME. Just sayin’… ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5365 "2015-07-23T19:43:12Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > Well, except when defending yourself from law enforcement. It’s illegal to do that, you know. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5366 "2015-07-23T19:52:16Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > So you believe that, for example, the other day when some jackass followed me a few feet in the parking garage and swore at me for calling him out on his bad behavior on the bus, I should have just straight up murdered him and I should be ok because I thought for a few seconds that he may attack me? :smack: Did you believe your life was in danger? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5367 "2015-07-23T20:06:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did you believe your life was in danger? If I claim I thought it was, can I kill him? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5368 "2015-07-23T20:11:59Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > If I claim I thought it was, can I kill him? :dubious: "Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie, [if you believe it."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5369 "2015-07-23T20:53:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > If I claim I thought it was, can I kill him? :dubious: You can kill anyone you’re able to. Your choice. You must realize that you will face the criminal justice system if you do. Many states claim that they can kill you, if you’re found guilty of murder. Or put you in prison for the rest of your natural life. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5370 "2015-07-23T21:01:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > As for “fuck tha police anarchists”, there’s only one or two who _actually_ think that, but there’s several more who’s views, if fully followed, would lead to a situation very similar to if the anarchists won - that is, no functional policing. Is this the fun bit where we point out that you live in a country where the police have nothing like the level of fatal interaction with suspects as occurs in the US, and you claim it’s down to black culture? I can never keep track of which stage of your dance we’re at. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5371 "2015-07-23T21:03:55Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You can kill anyone you’re able to. Your choice. You must realize that you will face the criminal justice system if you do. Many states claim that they can kill you, if you’re found guilty of murder. Or put you in prison for the rest of your natural life. Is there some part of the question to Smapti, where he’s asked what he believe is right, that you think is best answered with a reference to state law? Seriously, did you suffer head trauma? Someone Chimera asks Smapti what he thinks is fair, follows up with a clarification to the first response…and you think he’s asking about the legal system? What a prick. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5372 "2015-07-23T21:08:20Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You must realize that you will face the criminal justice system if you do. Sure, but it’s an altogether separate question whether you _should_ face such prosecution. According to **Smapti** , “Noone _should_ ever get life imprisonment or the death penalty for defending themselves when they believe their life is in danger” (italics mine). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5373 "2015-07-23T21:15:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You can kill anyone you’re able to. Your choice. You must realize that you will face the criminal justice system if you do. Many states claim that they can kill you, if you’re found guilty of murder. Or put you in prison for the rest of your natural life. It’s unfortunate police are not subject the same legal judgement, because the prosecutor always has a conflict of interest, and is loath to send a cop to trial because he has to work with them every day. If a special prosecutor was appointed for every law enforcement officer who shot an unarmed citizen, we would see a lot more cops in stripes. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5374 "2015-07-23T21:56:09Z")
Part 1 - > [@Chimera](#): > > If I claim I thought it was, can I kill him? :dubious: Part 2 - > [@doorhinge](#): > > You can kill anyone you’re able to. Your choice. You must realize that you will face the criminal justice system if you do. Many states claim that they can kill you, if you’re found guilty of murder. Or put you in prison for the rest of your natural life. Part 3 - > [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Is there some part of the question to Smapti, where he’s asked what he believe is right, that you think is best answered with a reference to state law? (post shortened) Maybe you forgot which of **Chimera** ’s posts I was responding too? This isn’t rocket surgery. Remedial reading skills should be all that’s required. Better luck next time. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5375 "2015-07-23T22:11:32Z")
Y’know, ' **hinge** , **Gary Kumquat** already summed up for you the theme of the discussion you interjected your bent penny into. Seriously, it’s in the next paragraph after the one you quoted. If that’s too tough for you to follow, maybe you should go lie down and try again tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5376 "2015-07-23T22:11:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have never said police should “execute citizens at will for non-compliance”, and I challenge you to quote me saying anything to that account. I have said that police have the exact same right to defend their lives as any other citizen has. And that police have the right to be mortally afraid of anyone who does not comply. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5377 "2015-07-23T22:13:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Are you a doctor? He has probably never had an asthma attack either. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5378 "2015-07-23T22:20:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It’s unfortunate police are not subject the same legal judgement, because the prosecutor always has a conflict of interest, and is loath to send a cop to trial because he has to work with them every day. If a special prosecutor was appointed for every law enforcement officer who shot an unarmed citizen, we would see a lot more cops in stripes. None of this is actually true. And since you’ve just repeated it over and over again with no supporting evidence, it can be rebutted with the same amount of evidence. It is simply false, nothing actually supports this view, and cops are, in fact and practice, subject to the same laws and (again in practice) deeper investigations into their behaviour. Is it fun being an idiotic conspiracy theorist? Your idea that there’s a conspiracy to allow violent police to go around killing black people is as realistic as the idea that the government blew up the Twin Towers. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5379 "2015-07-23T22:22:36Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > None of this is actually true. And since you’ve just repeated it over and over again with no supporting evidence, it can be rebutted with the same amount of evidence. > > It is simply false, nothing actually supports this view, and cops are, in fact and practice, subject to the same laws and (again in practice) deeper investigations into their behaviour. > > Is it fun being an idiotic conspiracy theorist? Your idea that there’s a conspiracy to allow violent police to go around killing black people is as realistic as the idea that the government blew up the Twin Towers. You know, you hand-wave with such vigor, it’s a wonder you don’t just take off and fly about the room. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5380 "2015-07-23T22:36:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > None of this is actually true. And since you’ve just repeated it over and over again with no supporting evidence, it can be rebutted with the same amount of evidence. > > It is simply false, nothing actually supports this view, and cops are, in fact and practice, subject to the same laws and (again in practice) deeper investigations into their behaviour. > > Is it fun being an idiotic conspiracy theorist? Your idea that there’s a conspiracy to allow violent police to go around killing black people is as realistic as the idea that the government blew up the Twin Towers. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You know, you hand-wave with such vigor, it’s a wonder you don’t just take off and fly about the room. He apparently has never heard of the [Blue wall of silence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence): > [@](#): > > The blue wall of silence,[1] also blue code[2] and blue shield,[3] are terms used in the United States to denote the unwritten rule that exists among police officers not to report on a colleague’s errors, misconducts, or crimes. If questioned about an incident of misconduct involving another officer (e.g. during the course of an official inquiry), while following the code, the officer being questioned would claim ignorance of another officer’s wrongdoing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=268) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=270)