# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/521 "2014-12-21T22:32:58Z")
> [@Ferguson, MO](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2119): > > Sure, from one of the Ferguson threads. > > > [@Ferguson, MO](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2119): > > > > I agree a cop shouldn’t have to be in grappling range. There is also the option of getting in the car, locking the door, and calling for backup. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17669721&postcount=2119](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17669721&postcount=2119) > > There were other, similar posts. The post you cited doesn’t say what you said people said: > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Not necessarily in this thread, but posters in recent threads have said that if the police encounter violent offenders, they should retreat to a safe distance, and call a supervisor. People (like you) who lie in the pursuit of supporting police actions that have helped cause the problems we have. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/522 "2014-12-21T22:52:31Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Back to our regularly scheduled programming: > > [Sheriff deputy caught on tape beating a man. Tries to cover it up. Fails.](http://sfist.com/2014/12/20/surveillance_video_shows_sheriffs_d.php) The officer was arrested and charged with a felony. I’d say the SFPD was doing it right. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/523 "2014-12-21T23:18:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Wait, my mind is blown. Baseball bats and rolling pins… Why the scoffing? Liberals just love to ignore history. I bet you didn’t know Lyudmila Pavlichenko had 309 confirmed kills with a rolling pin. They don’t teach that in school anymore. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/524 "2014-12-21T23:42:48Z")
Only people who knew where to find potatoes. Latvia sad. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/525 "2014-12-22T00:06:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The post you cited doesn’t say what you said people said. Yes, it did. Although Bob said calling for “backup” and not “a supervisor”, there was a post, probably in the Garner thread, that said that an officer should contact a supervisor before making _any_ arrest. Even you can see that’s just not feasible. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/526 "2014-12-22T03:42:04Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Yes, it did. No, it didn’t. In fact, in your next sentence you admit it did not say what you were challenged on: > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Although Bob said calling for “backup” and not “a supervisor”, there was a post, probably in the Garner thread, that said that an officer should contact a supervisor before making _any_ arrest. > > Even you can see that’s just not feasible. If there was a post that backs up your assertion, cite it. Otherwise we’ll just assume that you are making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/527 "2014-12-22T04:44:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If there was a post that backs up your assertion, cite it. Right here. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is it that bad if they wait longer, perhaps calling for a supervisor? What would be wrong with these options? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17798850&postcount=345](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17798850&postcount=345) So far, we’ve had a poster calling for law enforcement to run away and hide in their police car when encountering a violent offender, and another poster calling for the police to contact a supervisor before effecting a lawful traffic stop. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/528 "2014-12-22T05:32:52Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Right here. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17798850&postcount=345](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17798850&postcount=345) > > So far, we’ve had a poster calling for law enforcement to run away and hide in their police car when encountering a violent offender, and another poster calling for the police to contact a supervisor before effecting a lawful traffic stop. No, we don’t have posters calling for those things. We have posters offering options and leaving them open to rebuttal. You, meanwhile, come in here and bluster and mischaracterize what others say, making yourself look like a fool and thereby discouraging anyone from taking what you say seriously. You’re a fool with a fool’s agenda, it seems. But let’s see how deep that goes: are you saying that an officer should place himself or herself in harm’s way when encountering a violent person? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/529 "2014-12-22T18:37:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are these charges true? Just saw the reference to this on the The Daily Show, searched for this in Tamir Rice shooting in Cleveland. I can’t even believe it. > [@](#): > > The two Cleveland police officers who killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice did not administer first aid after they shot him down, according to Cleveland officials. > > It took almost four minutes before a detective and an FBI agent arrived on the scene and administered first aid on the boy, who was eventually rushed to hospital where he died of his injuries, local station WEWS‑TV reported. Neither Officer _attempted first aid_. _ **The officer who shot Rice was judged unfit for duty by a suburban police department in 2012** _ Cleveland Police never checked with Independence PD. If they had, they would have learned [this](http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_officer_who_s.html#incart_m-rpt-1): > [@](#): > > CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Cleveland police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice had issues with handling guns during his brief tenure with a suburban police department. > > A Nov. 29, 2012 letter contained in Tim Loehmann’s personnel file from the Independence Police Department says that during firearms qualification training he was “distracted” and “weepy.” > > **“He could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal,”** according to the letter written by Deputy Chief Jim Polak of the Independence police. > > The letter recommended that the department part ways with Loehmann, who went on to become a police officer with the Cleveland Division of Police. > > \*\*“I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct the deficiencies,” \*\*Polak said. > [@](#): > > In an interview with the Northeast Ohio Media Group, Loehmann’s father said that his son left Independence to pursue a job with Cleveland police because he **wanted “more action.”** Bolding mine. Because it scares me. > [@](#): > > A [Department of Justice investigation](http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2014/12/04/cleveland_division_of_police_findings_letter.pdf), which didn’t look at the Rice shooting, found Cleveland police officers used excessive deadly force, including shootings and head strikes with impact weapons; unnecessary, excessive, and retaliatory force, including Tasers, chemical sprays, and their fists; and excessive force against people with mental illness or in crisis, including one situation in which officers were called exclusively to check up on someone’s welfare. > > Police officers also used “poor and dangerous tactics” that often put them “in situations where avoidable force becomes inevitable and places officers and civilians at unnecessary risk,” according to the report. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/530 "2014-12-23T01:54:43Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Bolding mine. Because it scares me. Here’s what scares me. > **[Cleveland officer who shot boy had no choice, cop's dad says](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tim-loehmann-cleveland-officer-who-shot-boy-tamir-rice-had-no-choice-cops-dad-says/)** > > A policeman who fatally shot a 12-year-old thought the boy's pellet gun was a real firearm, the officer's father says > [@](#): > > The police department is investigating the officer’s use of deadly force, and the county prosecutor has said the case will be presented to a grand jury to decide whether any charges are merited. > > **Loehmann has returned to work from administrative leave, but is not back on patrol.** Not only is it unlikely this guy will be charged with a crime (given what we know about GJs and the police), but this colossal fuck up is probably going to hold on to his badge, gun, and nice lil pension too. Merry fucking Christmas, Cleveland! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/531 "2014-12-23T02:19:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Merry fucking Christmas, Cleveland! It’s absolutely maddening that people can direct all their rage and sanctimony on the crazed shooter who took out those two NYPD cops, and yet be completely nonchalant about this blatant injustice. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/532 "2014-12-23T04:25:02Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Here’s what scares me. > > [Tim Loehmann, Cleveland officer who shot Tamir Rice, 12, had no choice, cop's dad says - CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tim-loehmann-cleveland-officer-who-shot-boy-tamir-rice-had-no-choice-cops-dad-says/) > > Not only is it unlikely this guy will be charged with a crime (given what we know about GJs and the police), but this colossal fuck up is probably going to hold on to his badge, gun, and nice lil pension too. > > Merry fucking Christmas, Cleveland! This guy belongs nowhere NEAR firearms. Of course, we’ll hear nothing but silence from **Smapti** , et al. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/533 "2014-12-23T04:35:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, we don’t have posters calling for those things. We have posters offering options and leaving them open to rebuttal. That’s not how policing works in the real world. They’re not in a position to seek opinions and consider rebuttals (from people on message boards, no less). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/534 "2014-12-23T05:31:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > That’s not how policing works in the real world. They’re not in a position to seek opinions and consider rebuttals (from people on message boards, no less). Holy fuck you’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/535 "2014-12-23T05:50:29Z")
You’re the one who deliberately mischaracterizes Supreme Court rulings in Great Debates. Why such blatant lying is allowed in a forum called Great Debates, I’ll never know. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17994547&postcount=44](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17994547&postcount=44) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/536 "2014-12-23T05:59:45Z")
I doubt if I’ve ever expressed an opinion in GD that no one would call a lie. Such an opinion would have to be innocuous and devoid of consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/537 "2014-12-23T06:07:12Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re the one who deliberately mischaracterizes Supreme Court rulings in Great Debates. > > Why such blatant lying is allowed in a forum called Great Debates, I’ll never know. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17994547&postcount=44](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17994547&postcount=44) You don’t read OR argue well. It’s almost painful to watch you be this dumb. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/538 "2014-12-23T12:15:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Police officers also used “poor and dangerous tactics” that often put them “in situations where avoidable force becomes inevitable and places officers and civilians at unnecessary risk,” according to the report. I’ve often wondered how US police get themselves in such confrontational situations, and have always assumed it was poor training or application. This thread has caused me to reconsider; it really does seem - for whatever reasons - US police sometimes invite confrontation, perhaps even seek it. That might be to do with poor initial screening of personality types, maybe the stress of the job, probably more likely the macho culture of the workplace … it’s pretty crazy to have got to this point, espeically when guns are so often used and forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/539 "2014-12-23T13:00:12Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > … it’s pretty crazy to have got to this point, espeically when guns are so often used and forgiven. It’s gotten to this point _because_ guns are so often used and forgiven. If cops feared losing their jobs and going to jail as much as they feared looking like weaklings who are too nice to harass and bully people, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/540 "2014-12-23T16:01:13Z")
Fox affiliated news program falsely reports protestors chanted “kill a cop” > [@](#): > > What you are hearing there is a protester in Washington, D.C. shout the following chant: > > We can’t stop! > > We won’t stop! > > 'til killer cops are in cell blocks! > > Not a particularly provocative chant, all things considered: protesters are announcing their intention to continue organizing until murderous police officers are put in jail. Fair enough! > > That is, until Baltimore’s local FOX affiliate got their hands on this video. Here’s their interpretation of it: > > We can’t stop! > > We won’t stop! > > So kill a cop! > > By cutting away from the video mid-chant, FOX’s segment paints protestors as explicitly calling for the murder of police. They’ve depicted a non-violent protest about accountability for police brutality as a bloodthirsty mob. [http://gawker.com/slimy-baltimore-fox-affiliate-caught-faking-kill-a-cop-1674040381?utm\_campaign=socialflow\_gawker\_twitter&utm\_source=gawker\_twitter&utm\_medium=socialflow](http://gawker.com/slimy-baltimore-fox-affiliate-caught-faking-kill-a-cop-1674040381?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=28)