# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 273
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5441 "2015-07-27T13:08:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Fight or flight” is only a valid response to danger if you _can_ do either of those things. When you’re half-asleep in your underwear and armed police are raiding your home, you can neither fight nor flee; thus the correct response from someone who wishes to continue living is to submit. That’s rational and thought out. Sometimes when I am half asleep, I do not think clearly. Other people may experience the same cognitive deficit when they are not fully awake. ymmv You may be one of those people who is fully aware, rational, and awake when you are half-asleep. I strongly suspect that other humans are not fully functional in a cognitive sense when they are not fully awake. We could check the Google and see if being asleep interferes with humans cognitive abilities. **If it turns out that people–other than yourself of course–experience cognitive difficulties when they are half-asleep, would it change your assessment of the situation?** ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5442 "2015-07-27T13:17:09Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > **If it turns out that people–other than yourself of course–experience cognitive difficulties when they are half-asleep, would it change your assessment of the situation?** The fact that people “experience cognitive difficulties” when half-asleep is all the more reason not to fly off half-cocked in response to unexpected stimuli. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5443 "2015-07-27T13:21:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact that people “experience cognitive difficulties” when half-asleep is all the more reason not to fly off half-cocked in response to unexpected stimuli. Heh. I think you are experiencing cognitive difficulties with the points people have been trying to make about this. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5444 "2015-07-27T13:24:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact that people “experience cognitive difficulties” when half-asleep is all the more reason not to fly off half-cocked in response to unexpected stimuli. _The Onion_ needs to hire you, right now. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5445 "2015-07-27T13:35:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact that people “experience cognitive difficulties” when half-asleep is all the more reason not to fly off half-cocked in response to unexpected stimuli. Again, that is a thought rational response which may be impossible for someone who experiencing cognitive difficulties. If it turns out that people–other than yourself of course–are unable to function as rationally you in those circumstances, would it change your assessment of the situation? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5446 "2015-07-27T13:42:08Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > If it turns out that people–other than yourself of course–are unable to function as rationally you in those circumstances, would it change your assessment of the situation? No, it would only indicate a lack of forethought on the part of the person acting irrationally. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5447 "2015-07-27T13:47:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, it would only indicate a lack of forethought on the part of the person acting irrationally. A lack of forethought can be a sign of cognitive impairment. To be clear, even if it were shown that many people are actually incapable of doing what you suggest, your assessment does not change. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5448 "2015-07-27T13:57:38Z")
It isn’t that **Smapti** is unnaturally rational or unnaturally immune to the effects of sleep on cognition and perception. It is that he exists in no other state than submission. He falls asleep and wakes submitting to whoever or whatever is around. He very likely sleeps face down with his hands clasped behind his head. You can never be too prepared, and when you do otherwise and get killed, it’s nobody’s fault but your own. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5449 "2015-07-27T14:02:07Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > He very likely sleeps face down with his hands clasped behind his head. > You can never be too prepared, and when you do otherwise and get killed, it’s nobody’s fault but your own. That _IS_ some forethought. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5450 "2015-07-27T14:23:16Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > That _IS_ some forethought. And probably perfectly rational in his worldview. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5451 "2015-07-27T14:31:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I found all the characters who’d been presented up to that point to be horrible people and I didn’t care about what happened to any of them. How ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5452 "2015-07-27T17:25:56Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > _The Onion_ needs to hire you, right now. The Onion’s trick is in writing content that is halfway plausible. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5453 "2015-07-27T17:53:04Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > The Onion’s trick is in writing content that is halfway plausible. Like this? [Police Pleasantly Surprised To Learn Man They Shot Was Armed](http://www.theonion.com/article/police-pleasantly-surprised-to-learn-man-they-shot-37170) > [@](#): > > LEXINGTON, KY—Following a pedestrian stop Monday night during which they fired their weapons on a suspicious individual, patrol officers for the Fayette County Police Department were pleasantly surprised to discover the man they shot was armed, sources confirmed. “Well, what do you know—he really was carrying a gun,” said officer Dustin Hayes, smiling upon finding a 9mm pistol on the body of the 23-year-old individual shortly after the policeman and his partner discharged their firearms a total of 19 times. “I honestly had no idea if he had a handgun, so it’s pretty great to find one right there tucked into his waistband. This makes the rest of our week a whole lot easier.” Officers said they were further relieved after discovering the man had a petty theft charge on his record, ensuring they were 100 percent off the hook. This piece of satire is what goes on in Smaptitown for real. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5454 "2015-07-27T17:59:27Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Like this? > > [Police Pleasantly Surprised To Learn Man They Shot Was Armed](http://www.theonion.com/article/police-pleasantly-surprised-to-learn-man-they-shot-37170) > > This piece of satire is what goes on in Smaptitown for real. I just went with the first hit, but the second is relevant, too: [Do You Know Why I’m Pulling You Over, Being Wildly Aggressive, And Charging You With Assault Today, Sir?](http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/do-you-know-why-im-pulling-you-over-being-wildly-a-50916) > [@](#): > > Good afternoon, sir. Go ahead and roll your window all the way down for me. My name is Officer Daniel McEwen from the Greene County Police Department. Now, do you know why I’m pulling you over today, being overly aggressive, and charging you with a felony count of assaulting a police officer? > > I’m going to need to see your driver’s license, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance. Thank you, sir. Now, just sit tight in your car while I take a look here and grow increasingly hostile. I’m just going to start addressing you in an unmistakably threatening tone that is specifically meant to intimidate and provoke, and then drastically escalate the situation so that it quickly gets out of hand. > > Are you aware of the speed limit on this road, sir? It’s 35. I had you clocked at 52 miles per hour, which is why I had to stop you and exhibit a nakedly confrontational, antagonistic, and condescending attitude, practically daring you to challenge my authority in any way whatsoever. You can’t be driving that fast around here, so I’m going to have to write you a ticket and then violently place you under arrest the moment you do or say anything that isn’t in complete and utter compliance—or which could even be remotely construed as noncompliant—with every single instruction I give to you. > > Do you understand all that, sir? > > … There’s some more at the site. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5455 "2015-07-27T18:14:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Fight or flight” is only a valid response to danger if you _can_ do either of those things. When you’re half-asleep in your underwear and armed police are raiding your home, you can neither fight nor flee; thus the correct response from someone who wishes to continue living is to submit. I know you have difficulties understanding hoo-mans, but the fight-or-flight trigger response doesn’t exactly check for feasibility before kicking in. When naked you faces an ambush of tigers in the veldt, neither fight \*or \*flight will work but our bodies still pick one (blind, slavering compliance won’t either, so you’re fucked too), and pick it before the information has even been fully processed by our skull passenger. That’s why we call it fight or flight instinct, not fight or flight reasoned inference based on carefully considered hypotheses. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5456 "2015-07-27T18:25:02Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I know you have difficulties understanding hoo-mans, but the fight-or-flight trigger response doesn’t exactly check for feasibility before kicking in. > When naked you faces an ambush of tigers in the veldt, neither fight \*or \*flight will work but our bodies still pick one (blind, slavering compliance won’t either, so you’re fucked too), and pick it before the information has even been fully processed by our skull passenger. That’s why we call it fight or flight instinct, not fight or flight reasoned inference based on carefully considered hypotheses. Couldn’t you just blindly comply with what the tiger wants? That’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5457 "2015-07-27T18:29:01Z")
If your self-preservation instincts require you to engage in behaviors that you _know_ will not preserve your self, then they are broken. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5458 "2015-07-27T18:40:39Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Like this? > > [Police Pleasantly Surprised To Learn Man They Shot Was Armed](http://www.theonion.com/article/police-pleasantly-surprised-to-learn-man-they-shot-37170) > > This piece of satire is what goes on in Smaptitown for real. > [@dasmoocher](#): > > I just went with the first hit, but the second is relevant, too: > > [Do You Know Why I’m Pulling You Over, Being Wildly Aggressive, And Charging You With Assault Today, Sir?](http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/do-you-know-why-im-pulling-you-over-being-wildly-a-50916) > > There’s some more at the site. And none of it is true. Do you realize that the Onion is a combination of humor, satire, and bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5459 "2015-07-27T18:41:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And none of it is true. Do you realize that the Onion is a combination of humor, satire, and bullshit? Do you realize that you are a fucking moron? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5460 "2015-07-27T18:54:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And none of it is true. Do you realize that the Onion is a combination of humor, satire, and bullshit? Wow, really!!?? What was I thinking when I followed the link with this? > [@dasmoocher](#): > > This piece of satire is what goes on in Smaptitown for real. Thank you for setting me straight. > [@Wolf333](#): > > Do you realize that you are a fucking moron? For a guy that likes to disparage the reading comprehension of others, maybe he should look in the mirror. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=272) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=274)