# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 275
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5481 "2015-07-27T22:43:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > I know. As has been pointed out, when you are reduced to editing my responses to make yourself feel better, I win. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5482 "2015-07-27T23:05:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > As has been pointed out, when you are reduced to editing my responses to make yourself feel better, I win. I think you’ve been playing with yourself, again. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5483 "2015-07-27T23:10:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I think you’ve been playing with yourself, again. You think about that a lot, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5484 "2015-07-27T23:11:10Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I think So you claim, but we’ve seen no evidence of it yet. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5485 "2015-07-27T23:17:09Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So you claim, but we’ve seen no evidence of it yet. Based on your past performances, you don’t have the skillset required to recognize evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5486 "2015-07-28T01:34:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So, the three people arguing one side of this position here are **Smapti** , **Steophan** , and **Doorhinge**. That’s an interesting combination of crazy, racist, and stupid. You’re being very generous to doorhinge by describing his contributions as “arguing.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5487 "2015-07-28T01:38:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re being very generous to doorhinge by describing his contributions as “arguing.” Even calling them “contributions” is generous. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5488 "2015-07-28T01:57:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Based on your past performances, you don’t have the skillset required to recognize evidence. Pssst, you forgot to add “hahahaha”. How can anybody tell your rapied wit just won the exchange now ?! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5489 "2015-07-28T02:02:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Even calling them “contributions” is generous. Even using the pronoun “them” is generous, since it’s really one note repeated. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5490 "2015-07-28T08:33:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The idea that many frequent posters here are “on the normal spectrum” is amusing… No matter what your point of view on this or any other issue, you have to admit that the man has a point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5491 "2015-07-28T11:25:22Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > In all fairness, it sounds like **The Stainless Steel Rat** may have some pretty thick glasses. They are (normal writing is illegible more than 6" from my face), but not half as thck as Smapti , I think. A shame, since he seems rather reasonable and even likeable on other threads, but utterly clueless in this one. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5492 "2015-07-28T11:35:40Z")
[Officer kills a man during a traffic stop. Chief has seen the video and says “it is not good.” Which probably explains why the video will not be immediately released."](http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/city-university-of-cincinnati-official-meet-with-faith-leaders-to-discuss-deadly-police-shooting) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5493 "2015-07-28T11:56:36Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Officer kills a man during a traffic stop. Chief has seen the video and says “it is not good.” Which probably explains why the video will not be immediately released."](http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/city-university-of-cincinnati-official-meet-with-faith-leaders-to-discuss-deadly-police-shooting) > [@](#): > > Cincinnati Police Chief Jeffrey Blackwell said he’s seen the unreleased footage from a University of Cincinnati officer’s body camera during last week’s fatal shooting and “it’s not good.” STOP SHOOTING VIDEO IN PORTRAIT MODE!! Or did he mean it was a bad shooting? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5494 "2015-07-28T12:12:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Officer kills a man during a traffic stop. Chief has seen the video and says “it is not good.” Which probably explains why the video will not be immediately released."](http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/city-university-of-cincinnati-official-meet-with-faith-leaders-to-discuss-deadly-police-shooting) In this case, I think I’m totally on board with the prosecutor’s decision to _delay_ the release of the body cam footage until [possibly] the end of this week. Per the story, they’re still investigating, including interviewing witnesses. I’m mindful of the way witness stories were published in the Michael Brown shooting, often before official interviews. There was even, in the Brown case, a “witness” who came forward to collaborate Officer Wilson’s story with what was almost surely a complete fabrication. That witness was able to put her story together using Wilson’s own account, which had been widely reported prior to her deposition, and her testimony was in fact presented to the grand jury. Witnesses buttressing the opposing narrative were given the same opportunity; I’m not saying that happened, but it was certainly made possible, because both accounts were part of a national dialogue for days (at least) before all the witnesses were officially deposed. Some intriguing aspects of this story include the relationship between University of Cincinnati and City of Cincinnati police departments (possibly strained?), and the lawsuit-prompted [Collaborative Agreement](http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/department-references/collaborative-agreement/) under which CPD seems to have operated between ~2002 and ~2007, and which, according to Police Chief Blackwell in the article, still seems to inform the “way we police” in the city. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5495 "2015-07-28T12:19:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Officer kills a man during a traffic stop. Chief has seen the video and says “it is not good.” Which probably explains why the video will not be immediately released."](http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/city-university-of-cincinnati-official-meet-with-faith-leaders-to-discuss-deadly-police-shooting) I think I agree with waiting for the grand jury to finish. It’s going to be released, and it’s going to be released soon. If they’re already planning for “community reaction”, it must be really, really, really not good. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5496 "2015-07-28T12:30:15Z")
Missed the edit window: CPD was operating under court supervision until mid-year 2007, when they transitioned _into_ full implementation of the “problem oriented policing” required by the collaborative agreement. On first read, this looks like a good faith effort (however it was prompted) to reform use-of-force procedures, remove racial biases and strengthen cooperation between CPD and the communities they police. The [Ohio ACLU](http://www.acluohio.org/issue-information/the-cincinnati-collaborative-agreement) was guardedly optimistic after the first 5 years under the agreement, but I haven’t found anything recent. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5497 "2015-07-28T12:36:16Z")
But wait, according to Smapti, we as citizens have NO RIGHT to demand or require changes in policing procedures! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5498 "2015-07-28T13:02:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But wait, according to Smapti, we as citizens have NO RIGHT to demand or require changes in policing procedures! According to **Steophan** , if we were to do such, the immediate next step will be anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5499 "2015-07-28T13:11:42Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I think I agree with waiting for the grand jury to finish. It’s going to be released, and it’s going to be released soon. > > If they’re already planning for “community reaction”, it must be really, really, really not good. Are we talking “closed captioning in Comic Sans” level of really, really, really not good ; or even worse ? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/5500 "2015-07-28T14:21:19Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > …I’m mindful of the way witness stories were published in the Michael Brown shooting, often before official interviews. There was even, in the Brown case, a “witness” who came forward to collaborate Officer Wilson’s story with what was almost surely a complete fabrication. That witness was able to put her story together using Wilson’s own account, which had been widely reported prior to her deposition, and her testimony was in fact presented to the grand jury. Witnesses buttressing the opposing narrative were given the same opportunity; I’m not saying that happened, but it was certainly made possible, because both accounts were part of a national dialogue for days (at least) before all the witnesses were officially deposed. (Post shortened. Underline added.) In the Brown case, CNN and other media outlet repeatedly found “witnesses” who were willing to say something/anything on camera. “Hands up, don’t shoot” was the most popular theme. And that alleged fact proved to be simply a figment of the imagination of Brown’s accomplice, which was then repeatedly repeated ad nauseam. The media outlets didn’t seem to care if the “witnesses” could possibly have seen what they say they saw. It did make for good television. :smack: The FBI and State Police investigations proved that many of the most popular Brown-related media and internet stories were based on a combination of horseshit and bullshit. Who is this witness you believe collaborated Officer Wilson’s story? And if you’re not saying that happened, what are you saying/implying happened? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=274) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=276)